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maximus
11-08-2003, 05:38 AM
I came across standard internet about two years ago, and wanted to sign up with them, but when i did a little research on the company... I could only find negative things about them, on google, on yahoo, on forms, on alexa everywhere standard internet was there were people saying negative stuff about the company..the only place i could find a good review of them was on their disscusion board. (but that is not crediable source)... so I never even bothered to sign up with them!, and at that time I had more than enough sponsors to fill my inventories. but now as more and more sponsors have left the market, I am beganing to look for new sponsors, and reading the postings here I see that some of you are using either popuptraffic.com or allclicks.com or one of their other programs. So I would like to know have the Geeks in here had a good experiance with the company? or a bad ones?
Would you recommend giving them a shot?

Curion
11-08-2003, 06:14 AM
Always get paid in time and full. :) Be sure you read their TERMS & Conditions before joining them.

EMINEM79
11-08-2003, 07:11 AM
Some people love them and some people hate them it seems.

From my experience though and those of many many webmasters I know I can NOT recommend them.

I really stress the word many.

Edit - Spelling error

Robert from SI
11-08-2003, 11:35 AM
There are a miniscule minority of webmasters who have been displeased with SI. 99.9% are satisfied. Unhappy folks tend to be extremely vocal.

Satsfied folks don't go around on web boards posting "Golly...I got my SI check on time again this month. The amount was correct, the check was signed and there was the correct address and postage on the envelope....48 straight months in a row now...yawn..." ;)

When you deal with well over 120,000 webmasters, as SI has, if 1/10 of one percent of those webmasters are unhappy you have 120 folks complaining on web forums.

Give SI a try and you'll be advertising with us long term. Your check will come on time, in full, month after month with no excuses.

If you have any questions or concerns feel free to email or PM me personally.

jiminsd
11-08-2003, 01:52 PM
My two cents worth...

I've used them and they were reliable and always paid right on time. It seems that they are quite strict on having their publishers keep to their policies that have lead to some very vocal ex-publishers.

The way I see it is that if you are honest with them they will treat you fine.

robot
11-08-2003, 05:12 PM
I've been paid regularly by them for nearly 3 years using several of their programs.

They've generated the more heated debate than the next most five programs combined, partly because of their very strict policies, partly because of their agressive counteragruments. It appears to me that they have responded very forcefully to cheaters, leading to some collateral damage (I got a shrapnel wound myself). My wounds were healed with a few polite e-mail exchanges.

The fact that they have been around so long tells you more than I can about them.

For me, their programs are perfect ways to squeeze a few extra bucks out of my sites. Their checks have been as regular as the lunar cycle.

Robert from SI
11-08-2003, 06:34 PM
jiminsd, robot,

Thanks for the compliments. Affiliates like you are sincerely appreciated.

fatale
11-08-2003, 07:10 PM
I don't want to go into too much detail, but I would _not_ recommend them either. If you follow all their rules to the letter, you'll be fine, but the very second you make a slightest mistake, you'll lose all the money owed to you, your e-mails won't be answered and you will not have any recourse to resolve the situation in your favor. At least, that's what I learned from my experience. In my case, even the fact that one of the admins looked over my site at my request and ok'd the changes I made to it, didn't make any difference. I'm still owed over $2k total (all their programs I was using combined). You will not even realize that you made a mistake until the payday comes and you don't get a check. They won't notify you, they won't tell you that you are running their ads for free now, they'll just stop all communications with you. I realize that they probably experience a very high fraud rate and that's why they have such a harsh stance against anything that even remotely looks like an attempt to cheat them. But from an honest webmaster's perspective, it's just not fair. So I guess it's your choice -- risk it or not. I wouldn't. But then again, I'm happy with my current advertisers I've had mutually beneficial business relationship with for over 2 years now.

maximus
11-08-2003, 08:57 PM
hmmmm.....Good Reviews as Well as Bad Ones.....I'm back to square one. Well I'm right now doing well with popupsponsor paypopup, fastclick so i'll stick with them for now.....

Robert it seems that many webmaster are mad at you'll for not informing them that their account had been suspended, they claim that you'll continue to take their traffic for free and the only way they realized their account was suspended was when they didnít receive their cheques. and you'll didnít reply to their email questions and continued to show their stats. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but with several identical stories out there you can't help but be influenced by them.
This is pretty scary for a webmaster who earns his living 100% from sponsors. If SI was his only sponsor and you'll deemed his account to be fraudulent he would loose 1 month pay, then another months pay waiting for his cheque, and if he is patient and believes he did noting wrong he will wait another month hoping for a reply from you'll. At the end of it you'll might profit from 3 months of free traffic, but the webmaster is out by a 3 months salary. This is a risk not many webmaster who make a living online are willing to take.

Could you shed some light on these issues...

Don't get me wrong, I don't condone cheating, but there are mistakes that have been made in the past. I remember when I started out with paypopup.com they marked my account as fraudulent, but when they reviewed it they blocked out about 0.02% of the traffic that they said come from proxy servers, but the rest they said was all alright...and i have had a good relationship with them for 6 months now. I think it would really do your company good if you'll listen to legitimate webmaster, having a large database of webmasters does not mean you'll should sacrifice customer service.

Every negative review out there is costing you'll customers. In my logic if a webmaster knows he is cheating the system he is prepared to be caught, and when he is he'll just walk away. On the other hand if he believes he is doing the right thing and then gets caught for fraud.. he will obviously be frustrated and voice his option. Maybe you'll should consider it that not everyone in this world wants to cheat people, sometimes there are just misunderstandings.

Anyway wish you'll the best, hopefully i'll see more postitive reviews about SI in the future.

EMINEM79
11-08-2003, 09:00 PM
I suggest you just stay with fastclick popupsponor and paypopup, although I have no personal experience with paypopup I know you won't get swindled by fastclick or popupsponsor :)

Dave

Czar
11-08-2003, 09:53 PM
All three of those names are reputable, and produce decent returns. Personally, my earnings from PayPopup have declined markedly this month which suggests that they're having a tougher time selling their inventory on book than the other names you mentioned.

PopupTraffic definitely remains worthy of exploration, though. If nothing else, they make for a great default for FastClick account holders. With the recent rate increase, however, they could even produce greater returns than those experienced through FastClick or PopupSponsor - depending largely on the geographic makeup of your audience.

Like Robot, I've been using Standard Internet's programs for many years and have found them reliable during that time.

kryton
11-08-2003, 10:37 PM
I've been using Standard Internet for 3 years. I've always been paid on time and in full, and during my peak I earned over $30 per day from Allclicks (certain websites claim if you earn over $10-20 per day they will try their best to cut you off). When I first started they were very good, but I would have to say once you become big you can make more money by seeking your own targetted text link advertising (much more than blind links). I would class them as acceptable, and recommend for honest newbies.

Steve_S
11-08-2003, 11:10 PM
Hi maximus,

Welcome to the "village" and best of luck :)

You will get better advice/feedback if you post the URLs of your mainstream sites where you are thinking about replacing your current affiliate programs? What are the URLS so we can take a look?

Speaking in the broadest of terms and referring to all sites run for profit and all affiliate programs:

You should never try and please everyone. If you try to do this you will fail. You actually want to eliminate folks from the equation and let other sites and or firms try and fill the void/niche. The final judge has little to do with what you or I think, it's the marketplace :) and as you your self said in a previous post:

"...I make about $75/day with popupsponsor but this is really sad with the traffic i have .. a year ago i used to make over $300/day .. but now most of those companies have closed down.. and i can't find a program that pays well, and does not annoy visitors ....... (don't like exitfuel....... very annoying popups)"

Good luck with whatever you decide to do :)

Sashman
11-09-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Robert from SI
There are a miniscule minority of webmasters who have been displeased with SI. 99.9% are satisfied. Unhappy folks tend to be extremely vocal.

While 99.9% is a tad optimistic there is no refuting that unhappy folks tend to be the most vocal. Read the Alexa geekvillage reviews for an example. Lol.

I personally don't have a problem with their tougher position on cheaters, but I do have a problem with the high percentage of bad ads sneaking into the mix (gator, 2 kinds of homepage switching ads in one month, and double pop ads). This month, for their rate raise they seem to have cleaned up their ads pretty well though. Let's just hope they can continue this.

For me, I opted for other programs over SI as my primary provider due to the high percentage of user complaints and google wanting me to remove my adsense ads over a gator ad served by them. If you don't mind complaints for the odd bad ad, don't use adsense and plan on following their rules; by all means you should try them out. At that point you can compare actual CPM with other providers.

If they would police their advertisers as well as they police their users, IMO they would be a great company. For right now, put me in the 0.1% category.

maddeningcrowds
11-09-2003, 03:34 PM
>> but that is not crediable source

It's as credible as any.

tobiasussing
11-09-2003, 04:55 PM
i trust SIC implicitly, though i might disagree on their no answer policy. But it really isn't a problem for me, its only a problem for the cheaters.

if SIC have a program that fits your page(maybe like http://www.popbehinds.com/ ), then you should grab that extra money.


btw, been with SIC for a 4-6 years, can't really remember.
Sincerly
ABC

EMINEM79
11-09-2003, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by maddeningcrowds
>> but that is not crediable source

It's as credible as any.

I've never seen a board so wrongfully "policed" in my life.

Dave

cyburrr
11-09-2003, 05:31 PM
Though I don't use SI anymore (and am leaning away from pops), I was actually once kicked out for 'begging' for clicks (I believe I had thanked readers for their support). Via email I explained that I was referring to paypal donations received (and provided the link to said page). So - I just wanted to give an example where SI DID review, reconsider and reinstate an account erroneously terminated (or at least by misunderstanding). My concerns were addressed and resolved very quickly.

qball0213
11-10-2003, 01:50 AM
I've always been treated fairly by SI also, if you throw them some traffic you will make money, period.

maddeningcrowds
11-10-2003, 06:54 AM
http://www.sictalk.com

>> I've never seen a board so wrongfully "policed" in my life.

It's their own board, they can do what they like with it, I don't think you could say it is possible for them to be 'wrong'.

But it IS a good source of information becuase its where a lot of publishers hang out, if you join and post and become part of the community you will meet publishers and hear their opinions.

So if you're thinking of their programs but aren't sure, hang out their regularly. You'll hear the good side and the bad side, you'll read the bad posts before they get deleted, and you can make up your own mind.



In general, I think the issue here as about the way the internet works in general.

SI runs their affiliate programs as a business. They have salaries and lawyers to pay, contracts to sign.

vs

A lot of webmasters are not business people. The internet illicits unprofessional behaviour from people that would never dream of such things in the real world.


For example if a salesperson had a problem with their salary, they would write a formal and polite letter to their boss. If nothing was resolved they would get their lawyer to write a formal and polite letter. etc etc. If it was found that the salesperson was faking sales to get comissions he would be very embarassed and would go hide in the shadows for a long time. He would likely face some court proceedings againt him for his fraudulent actions.

If an SI affiliate (or any internet based sales person) has an issue, things are suddenly rather different. They tend to post all sorts of slanderous and highly emotive things in public places for all to see. If it is found they are cheating they come up with all sorts of crazy excuses (in public places) and somehow feel that because this is the internet, normal procedures of business and dealing with people and crime don't apply.

tobiasussing
11-10-2003, 11:06 AM
i second that statement, very good argument maddeningcrowds

sdarken
11-10-2003, 04:00 PM
I know I'm a bit late but I wanted to add my 2 cents worth. I've used S.I for many years (probably close to 4 years now). I've always been paid.

As someone suggested earlier, badly run companies dont tend to survive. S.I's longevity speaks for itself.

Follow the rules and ask questions if you are in any doubt about what you are doing and you should be fine.

Gracklor
11-10-2003, 04:10 PM
Some of SI's programs net me a lot of money...some don't....but I've always been paid.

As a side-thought, sometimes a site will suddenly have weird clicks show up because a foreign webmaster will try to pull content or graphics from your site. I actually had that happen with my joke site...it got to the point where 30% of my visitors were from China. (And considering the fact I only advertise in English-speaking countries, that's weird.) I was eventually forced to modify my htaccess file to block IP addresses from China.

So, sometimes you have to keep your eyes open...that way you can catch things before stricter companies like SI say, "hey, you've got a lot of invalid clicks."

Robert from SI
11-10-2003, 05:25 PM
Interesting thread.....

Running an affiliate/advertising company is a lot like being a goaltender in hockey. When you're doing your job right everyone is quiet...but make one mistake and the red light goes off and 20,000 people stand up and scream. :eek:


There is an issue of certain people complaining that they were dropped for "one little mistake" and that they are owed money. There is a HUGE difference between making a mistake in html or in understanding our terms and fraud. No one is EVER cancelled from SI for making a mistake. We work way too hard to get new affiliates to cancel one because they made a coding mistake. Affilaites who make mistakes are notified and given more than ample time time to correct anything our admins find. There are numerous posts by persons in this thread attesting that SI contacted them to correct mistakes.

Fraud is a different story. If you attempt to intentionally defraud our company we cancel your account and we do not service your account in any way. If you disagree with SI's policy towards cheaters than you shouldn't use our programs.

The person complaining in this thread had a paragraph on their site telling surfers that they needed to pay their server bills and to to click on allclicks ads and then click back to the site so that they could make money and support the site. This isn't a "little mistake" it's fraud. This webmaster is not "owed" any money for sending us fake traffic any more than a quack doctor is "owed" by a patient for fake medical care.

If you were buying traffic to send to your site to sell a product or service would you want to be charged for traffic like that? Of course not... :(

SI is different from most other companies because I get personally insutled when persons badmouth SI unjustly. When I read nonsence posted by a fraudster I respond to it. And nothing infuriates a cheater more than being exposed for what they are. I also take great pride in noting exactly how many of the folks who badmouth us are actually still around....the number is miniscule...

I take great pride that SI has never missed an affiliate payment in 6 years. I have seen many companies come and go on geektalk in that time. I've also seen many "the advertiser never paid us so we can't pay our affilaite" posts. During the dot com bust (and the Worldcom bankruptcy) SI took huge hits in our accounts receivable. Worldcom alone owed us close to 7 figures when they went bankrupt. Our affiliate payments went out on time and in full that month just as it has ever month before and since.

I sincerely appreciate the positive comments. I also respect the opinons of webmasters who prefer to use other programs. There are a lot of very bright folks on this forum...I've learned from you over the years and strive to run the best ad network I can while keeping both our affiliates and our advertisers pleased.

Steve_S
11-10-2003, 06:04 PM
Respectfully members. thanks for your participation. The thread has run it's course so I'm locking it.

Collectively, we have provided more than enough data to "maximus" so this member may make up their own mind. Dare I say, a ton of data and some really fantastic posts about how to tell the "truth" from either "half truths" and or bold faced untruths.

Stay tuned for my own Ebook on this issue which includes real emails and data going back over 5 years :) </joke>

The purpose of this thread as defined by member "maximus" has been achieved.

In this regard, you are certainlly encouraged to file your money/they owe me dispute issues as per this Forums Rules. The procedure and rules are located at:

http://www.geekvillage.com/posting_guide_for_bb.htm#item5

Additional comments with respect to my actions and or how we run theses Forums are always encouraged via our BB Feedback Form and only this form. See:

http://www.geekvillage.com/feedback_form_for_bb.htm

Thank you in advance for your anticipated cooperation and good luck to all of you.