View Full Version : Where have all the geek-talkers gone ??
02-18-2002, 06:14 AM
Posted a message 2 days ago and it is still in the first 20 messages for this group, not so long ago it would of been eaten up in no time, where have all the old posters gone, there seems to be little action these days, has everyone just given up on making money and gone and hid in a corner ??
02-18-2002, 06:23 AM
Well, I certainly look in here every day or so... and post fairly often, as you may have noticed.
One thing that has really disturbed me recently is the trend by many people (NOT everyone!) to promote money-making activities over the rule of law i.e. if something makes money it's ok (even if the activity requires breaking copyright, trademark or other laws to carry out).
This has definitely been an increasing trend and I don't know whether it's due to the ever-declining ad market (and hence a sense of desperation setting in) or whether it's a widening of the webmaster base to include many more people with what to me are questionable ethics.
I believe the trend I've outlined above is at least partly behind why many "regulars" may no longer be posting as much - they're tired of people running sites based on copyright infringement (for example) asking how they can make more money - frankly, they shouldn't be making ANY money! It tires me out too... especially when I see 10 people wading into a thread and all restating the same legally incorrect perspective.
I think also the general doom and gloom ad market is a large factor - when times were good, it made sense to exchange tips on how to maximize one's paycheck... but with things so grim, many webmasters can't be bothered to optimize between $0.20 and $0.22 CPM since the difference is a few dollars a month - not to mention that those who are still doing "OK" are likely to be more leery about revealing their methods and tactics.
There are not so many "have you received a cheque from xyz.com" posts, so maybe people are finally figuring out the goodies from the baddies?
I still see roughly the same amount of members and guests online at any given time and the threads are certainly being read.
02-18-2002, 07:06 AM
actually i'm missing in action more these days here because i'm actually making more money and have less time hehe
unfortunately/fortunately this is money from non-banner advertising ventures i.e. hosting biz, contract server/php/mysql work etc...
but i'm still around and don't plan on leaving hehe :)
02-18-2002, 07:11 AM
I am on the web since about 7 years as an entrepreneur. When I started to make money on the web there was noone whome I could ask how to succeed but we had a huge solidarity on the web. Noone wanted to cheat the other and the most resources were free. With the years this changed. Cheaters and parasites are everywhere, most things are combined with a fee or must be paid or both. I can imagine that someone who must spend a lot of time and money for making some $$ never would give his business principles to the others. So do I because I experienced a lot of stealing and capturing with my sites. Since it became so difficult to appear in search rankings without using a paid service everybody who gives away his secrets is stupid or he is a cheater saying not the truth in his postings.
Robert from SI
02-18-2002, 09:37 AM
Keep in mind that it is a holiday weekend in the USA and lots of people take off or are away. Many USA schools were closed on Friday as well which makes it a 4 day weekend.
It's ironic that you should start a thread with this topic as just last night I told someone that all of the advertising/making money forums have withered away, but GV gets busier and busier. :)
02-18-2002, 09:38 AM
I'd say that the basic principles of success on the internet are well-known.
Create a site -> Get Traffic -> Earn money with sales/advertisments
There are tons of ressources out there how you could make your site profitable, so it is nothing unachievable. There are a few tricks, not everybody knows - but that is the way it should be. I agree with those who'll say "let's share because we need to fight against the big boys out there" but I would say that "we" involves a lot of dishonest people.
Sorry about this negative comment, but in my current life situation I am realizing that there are far too many bad persons living on this planet trying to exploit the honest population. And it will get even worse when I go to the Army in 6 weeks :(
I used to be on alot back when you could actually make some money on Ads. I find it depressing coming back here often. I prefer to spend my time working on my sites and making them special.
Also I got tired of searching for the latest company that offered the best CPM deals and then later finding out they were dishonest, under counted, or something. You could spend all day applying to companies and inserting new code to find out a couple weeks later you were either not goin to get paid or it just was not performing
02-18-2002, 09:48 AM
I think the poor ad market is the main reason for people posting less.
But even today it's possible to make money on the internet and to improve the performance of your sites just by reading the posts here. :)
Example: A while a go I read a great tip about using text-boxes instead of banners/traditional text links.
I started using this strategy and this boosted my CTR's and Lead Ratio's. I didn't think it would make such a big difference and I would not have tried it if I had'nt read it here.
The ad market has matured, this is not *just* a crisis.
If you want to make money on the internet in 2002 you probably need to change some strategies you were using in 1999.
I think a lot of webmasters still need to make that change or are in the process of doing so.
That's what I hope to learn here. :)
Things like: how to improve CTR's and conversion ratio's and how to make a succesful switch from being a webmaster to being a merchant.
I think we'll see more of these subjects in the future and less posts about banner advertising and traditional internet marketing.
Just my thougths. :)
02-18-2002, 10:09 AM
CJ is a bit down and haven't seen any new / good programs for ages. So I haven't had any need for "Anyone tried abdc-program?" -questions.
Still reading this 1-2 times / week anyway.
02-18-2002, 06:04 PM
I bet they have all disappeared due to this bulletin boards strictness and excessive rules.
I know I stopped posting because I'm pretty much scared to post anything without fear of being banned from the board. I don't really feel like reading that 5 page 'Posting Guide'. I'd rather lurk and e-mail webmasters directly about stuff.
Robert from SI
02-18-2002, 06:29 PM
This forum gets 20 times the posts of the other ad forums exactly because of its guidelines.
It's also why you have representatives from about 20 ad companies that participate here and why almost none of them participate anywhere else.
02-18-2002, 06:41 PM
yes... at the begining it was difficult for me to change my mind from "100% dark side unmoderated" forums, but I see here what the logo says... "Quality for publishers & merchants"
02-18-2002, 06:48 PM
I agree with Robert, this forum's guidelines are probably a key factor in its loyal member base. This is one of the only forums that I know of where I know I will not see any "Check out this great new program I found" SPAM messages.
I never fear getting banned from here, because I don't post any links at all in my non-existent signature and I try to make sure that all of my posts are fair to all parties mentioned.
I think people are starting to push the legal envelope as far as advertising methods, but they usually come to this forum in an attempt to find out if their methods are legal. We have had many long threads in recent months discussing legal issues involved with website development and advertising (many of which were just hypothetical situations), and we could definately use a few lawyers in here to check the facts. The world wide web has only been around for a short time, and there is no legal precedent concerning some issues that have been brought up. Of course, many of the people that have participated in illegal/border line legal activities realize that what they are doing is unethical. But they have the right to decide if they are willing to risk their reputation to make a little $$$.
02-18-2002, 07:13 PM
Speaking for myself, I like this place because it is run in a professional and ethical manner. We have seen dozens upon dozens of of re-signed members bash this place, the bottom line is that they were members for a reason.(edit: and they are gone for a reason)
I would much rather visit a forum with fewer members, members that know what they are talking about, and moderation which is strict but constant, over a forum with a bunch of people just trying to increase posts counts when they should so obviously shut up, read and learn. Or one in which the rules are from the cuff if they exist at all.
just my .000002 worth
As for me, I still visit Geek/Talk every day. I post less than I used to, but only because I have a limited amount of time to spend on these things :)
02-18-2002, 08:44 PM
I visit and read everday, but I don't always post (This thread is a good reason to post, LOL).
02-18-2002, 08:57 PM
I'm a heavy lurker, but only because it seems when I post, I kill the discussion, hehe. Really have learned a lot here though, seems this is where the heavyweights come to bullsh*t. :rolleyes:
I haven't been posting here for a couple of reasons. The first reason being lack of time, and the second being all the "in-your-face" advertisements. I used to be a frequent visitor here (all of you old timers probably remember me), but things change and I started seeing repetition of topics, more rules, etc. For example, it is not necessary for the << READ ME >> message to be below everyone's signature. I think we get the point...
If I see something of interest, however, I will definitely make an effort to post.
02-19-2002, 03:49 AM
I personally have gone into lurker mood ... dont go looking for networks anymore.
As a side note, I have never understood the concept of 'post count pushing' ... who cares how man times you have posted.
Oh well ... I guess Im just not with it :cool:
02-19-2002, 04:00 AM
I've been a lurker for quite some time now, myself. I read it every day to stay up to date.
Usually if I have something beneficial to add to the thread then I'd post....hence my dramatic post count...:D
There are no rules to say you have to post a certain amount in a given time :p
02-19-2002, 05:32 AM
in my site's forums, the users feel like there's a racing or something... sincerely I like to see them jokeing about that, they are very "implicated" in the site and that's great. Of course my forum are much more informal than this one, almost no moderation, they post about music & life... I like my forum as it is.
IMHO it would be impossible to make a professional forum like this without strong rules, moderation and so. I think that if GeekTalk were not as it is, I wouldn't have learned what I am learning, and probably the ad networks would not care about the postings here. I like GV as it is.
02-19-2002, 07:01 PM
Well, I'm starting a new company so
haven't had the time to post as much
I used to be frustrated with all the rules
here but realized that there has to be a
balance for the publishers and merchants alike.
In another forums, when a webmaster accuses
a merchant of cheating with a strong rational,
the other webmasters tend to take head.
Sort of like a "us" against "them" attitude.
GV allows web publisher and merchant to
develop a certain trust so we can all
concentrate on how we can partner to profit.
The pop-ups which appear are one determing factor on why my visits to Geek/Village are less frequent now. I dont mind seeing one every time I visit, but every time I visit a forum and press "Back" on my browser to see the sammeeeee pop-up is a bit unnecessary. :(
One of my favorite things about Geek/Talk used to be its limited number of forums. Now there are like 238470017243073426 forums!!! Its too time consuming for me to visit each one when I get on here for just a few minutes.
But with that said, Geek Talk is still a wonderfull forum that just needs to undergo some small changes. Maybe Steve could post a topic asking for users basically to Rip his site apart -maybe a..............*gasp* "site review"*gasp* :D Sure most of the suggestions might be totally ridiculous, but I'm sure there would be a few good ones!
Originally posted by DJ_B
The pop-ups which appear are one determing factor on why my visits to Geek/Village are less frequent now. I dont mind seeing one every time I visit, but every time I visit a forum and press "Back" on my browser to see the sammeeeee pop-up is a bit unnecessary.
Do use Netscape too???
Internet Explorer 5.0 on a Mac...
It gets quite annoying seeing the pop-up every time you click the back button :(
02-20-2002, 05:05 AM
Hey, I'm there.
The reason I post less is that I have more and more sites to update. My business takes quite a lot of time besides my full time job.
Anyway, I come here nearly everyday. GV is Great as usual.
02-20-2002, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by singloon
actually i'm missing in action more these days here because i'm actually making more money and have less time hehe
Yes singloon - you are not so regular on other forums too these days - which is a pitty because I always like your perspective and technical knowledge on server tweeking, etc ;) No disrespect - I know how valuable time is :)
I am a massive lurker of these forums. Yes, it is sad when you hear of XYZ and you have to come here to geektalk and do a search to find out whether XYZ really pay!
I guess I am a lurker because I am basically a programmer that finally built up enough confidence to have a go at doing a bit of web entrepreneurship on the side as a hobby - well mainly as fun hehe. So this forum is all background knowledge for me. It took me about six months of luking around webhostingtalk forums before I decided which dedicated server host to go for - call me conservative :p
So I lurk around here too. Which brings me to another point. I guess the very low effective CPM (regardless of which model you are using CPM, CPA, CPC, etc) means that there is a much higher threshold before even considering affiliate programs, banner networks etc becomes viable. So often on various forums around the web, I read threads in the vein of:
[op] I have a entertainment web site that receives X number of uniques per day/month - which CPM network do you recommend? I applied for X, Y, Z - but I never got a response/they rejected my site!
[respondents] Forget it - networks just don't have the inventory, that segment is crowded, you don't have enough traffic, blah.
For example, I posted here a few weeks ago about which affiliate programs (CJ and others) I should consider and apply to for St. Valentine's Day promotions. I was greatful for the advice I received, and applied and was accepted for the relevent affiliate programs, etc. But, at the end of the day, after sitting down to my PC and going through my email at 8PM in the evening having received all these acceptance/welcome letters, etc, I thought over the cost/benfit of putting time into putting together a Valentine's Day promo - and it just was not worth it. Don't worry, it's not as pathetic as it seems - my site is really new, and current traffic just didn't justify it time wise. My only point is that there is obvioulsy a much higher threshold of traffic required to make effort worthwhile when it comes to promoting affiliate progs, and chasing CPM, etc, these days/
I do have to make a point of agreeing that these forums are well run. That is what makes them valuable. A sign of this is the fact that reputable ad network operators post here too. Cudos to Steve and the team that keep the forums above board.
A rather controversial point I will make is that one of the dissapointing things about these forums (and I feel safe saying this here - whereas on some forums you would get your thread thrown for saying anything controversial) is that I come here to read about what others are saying, what is working for others, and what others are doing to rake in the $$$ from their sites. So often, I click on the good ol' homepage icon in a post to go visit a member's site to see what they are on about - to be bombarded by pop-ups/unders, and well, a heck of a lot of ppc links, noise and crud, and a disapointing visit. Well, I hope I have not been to insulting there - I am not tarring every person with the same brush. :p
Love and peace to all :)
02-20-2002, 08:35 AM
I've always enjoyed visiting Geektalk and still try to take a few minutes everyday to read through the forums.
My reason for not posting too often any more is I just don't have time anymore since I've migrated over to a mostly e-commerce site. I believe some other geek members who have also gone the same route find themselves equally strapped for time.
It's been well worth the effort, but the workload has gone from a few hours a week for one person to enough to keep 3 people busy fulltime. Oddly enough updating the website is one of the lowest priorities now. Things like customer service, getting orders out the door, plus all the red tape most businesses go through take priority now.
GV is the best and is the only forum of any kind I even visit.
02-20-2002, 11:25 AM
I think the only downside with this board is when a thread gets moved to a more or less dead area of the site. Often a topic that would interest most webmasters gets moved and simply dies there.
I think the "Make Money" board should be switched to a general NON-PROMOTIONAL discussion area.
02-20-2002, 02:27 PM
Although I'm new to these forums, I agree with an earlier post that mentioned excessive rules. Sometimes I feel like I'm back at School when I come here ;) Also the sign-up process is very scary - shy people with useful information might be frightened away!
Nevertheless, GV is still a great site and I noticed that other forums like GetHigh have also gone very quiet - so it's not just GV. Also, I'm using IE6 and get that pop-down thingy everytime. It has really put me off because I have to click "close" each time. Surely once is enough per user, afterall you're not charging a CPM so what's the point?
Anyway, thanks for the forum.
02-20-2002, 03:14 PM
Thanks for the kind words and suggestions. Please pat yourself on the back :)
You have created the premiere resources on planet earth and for the most part, remain a pleasure and joy to host. You continue to reinforce our mission of placing Merchants/Vendors and Publishers/Webmasters in a Forum devoted to quality and civility.
Please don't hesitate to send me your thoughts on how I can improve GV via our BB Feedback Form (http://www.geekvillage.com/feedback_form_for_bb.htm) This Form is the only approved method for input/feedback.
Good luck to all of you and thanks again for your loyality and outstanding participation.
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