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Old 12-10-1999, 09:08 PM   #1
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Hello members and visitors,

As this year comes to a conclusion I’m filled with mixed emotions. This BB and every Forum in it was and are designed as a high quality Community where we can share tips, help each other, network, develop friendships, and have “fun” in a business like manner. I’m the first to admit that our BB is not for everyone. We have some of the strictest rules on the Web and we work very very hard to maintain the quality of our Community.

Most of you are a pleasure to host. I’ve always considered you “guests” in my house and it’s very gratifying to watch you grow, learn, and prosper. I’ve learned a great deal from you. Things, experiences, memories, and our growth which I will treasure for a very long time. Having said this, all members are expected to adhere to our rules. It makes no difference to me if you are a CEO of your own company or someone just starting out on the Web. Weather you have one post or 400 of them. We are all expected to conduct ourselves in the appropriate manner.

During the last two weeks, this Forum has produced numerous instances of “Abuse” and unfortunately a number of folks are no longer with us. I take no pleasure in this. I never have and I never will. I’m asking all of you to help us maintain our standards and appropriate behavior. I’m imploring you to help us set the appropriate “tone” on this Forum. You have in the past so I’m hopeful you will again.

Some specific issues that have occurred recently in this Forum. This BB and this Forum is not and never will be the place to “expose” and “attack” another member for cheating. This issue cuts both ways. Payer or recipient. This issue should be handled via e-mail or please go to another BB or newsgroup. Please think long and hard before you click that submit button. High voltage remarks, and defaming statements are never appropriate or permitted here. A “joke” about cheating is never permitted. Slandering another member and his or her company with posts that do not contain “facts” and are not based on concrete evidence is not permitted on this BB. These are all issues to discuss via private e-mail, another BB, newsgroup, or Chat. But not on this BB please. You can see more of what I’m talking about by looking for “locked threads” for the last two weeks.

A simple rule that may help some of you understand part of this issue. Would you say these things using the exact same words if you were sitting across the table from the other member in my living room, your house, their house, or at a public in-person speech in front of the thousands of people who visit this BB and this Forum every week ? If you honestly answered yes, then please don’t post.

A small number of you are “right on the edge” of crossing over that line of appropriate behavior. A small number of threads are “under audit” Myself, our Moderators and consultants have over 100 years of experience reading threads so we think and hope we bring a high degree of expertise to these issues. Sometimes we wait and watch. Sometimes it’s a semantics issue or even a cultural issue since we have members from nearly every country and state in the world. Members always receive the benefit of the doubt as some of you know first hand. We are acutely aware and try very hard to “understand” language, slang, local customs and semantics.

Perhaps some of you may think that I’m trying to suppress your ability to express yourselves or issue critical remarks. This is not the case. If you read all 10,000+ posts or read one of my infrequent statements on this issue you would understand my philosophy. If you express yourself in the appropriate manner using appropriate first hand facts I will and have defended your rights. Numerous times I have taken a “stand” for your rights. I always have and I always will. I’m passionate about this.

I’ve always used the words “Your Administrator” in my sig. This is your Community and I’m really just one of a number of people with a “vision” of where “we” want to go. I’ve spoken to a number of CEOs and Senior Level management folks via phone and they all marvel at what we have here. Many of you have also written us with kind words about what a great resource this Forum and all the others are on our BB. Let’s please not forget this. What we have is very very precious. Unfortunately for some, they never realized what they had until they can no longer post.

In closing, I want to wish you and yours a happy, healthy, and joyous Holiday Season.

Respectfully yours,


Best Regards,
Your Administrator
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Old 12-10-1999, 10:46 PM   #2
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Its just a forum, I think you are taking it too seriously. Of course thats not really a fair view on my part since its YOUR forum and you probably care about it more than me. The whole point about BBS's like this is users can state their opinions more openly than if we were sitting across at a table.

I don't see reasons why most of the locked threads got locked for. Just let people discuss whatever they want in the threads, and if other members of the comunity are offended, they don't need to open them. Barring of course wrongful slander and spam. But if I get ******* by an affiliate program or the like, then forums like these are great places to tell the masses, but you would probably lock the thread because it would start an argument. Eventually the threads will end themselves and possibly be resoloved. Using your comparison to a real life conversasion, if you got in an arguement with someone would you like it if a big hand came down and suddenly silenced both parties? No, its annoying and nothing will ever get solved.

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Old 12-10-1999, 11:03 PM   #3
Ted S
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I am blessed with working with Steve from time to time and therefore know a bit more about this. As a fellow moderator of many message boards, I have nothing but empathy for you Steve.

It is unfortunate that at times people must abuse or toy with others and impede on a great resource. However, when such actions are taken, the administrator must lock them down to keep their board focused. Of course banning anyone or locking threads, especially questionable threads are far from fun.

After reading countless threads across webboards including this site, I have personally concluded that Steve is one of the friendliest administrators and most dedicated out there. When a blatantly wrongful post is made, Steve closes it, instead of deleting it and seems to do wonders contacting the person.

No board is ever free from problems and I am sad to see this board experience an increase in problems. However, I am certain that Steve will properly maintain a balance between the allowable posts and the bad ones.

Good luck and I hope to see you all around in more interesting and beneficial threads.

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Old 12-10-1999, 11:08 PM   #4
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I'll have to agree with Ariakas. You guys are doing a great job, but often I see closed threads and don't know why they were closed (I better reread the rules I guess).

When people get e-******* , they get emotional and they often let that override facts in the actual situation. Put yourself in the shoes of the person. They want as many people to know that company X cheated them so others don't use them. This is a public forum so you will get those posts here no matter what is said in your rules.

It's hard to create a sort of forum utopia. http://www.very-cool-stuff.com/ubb/smile.gif

ack, my word got sensored. its 's*rewed'.

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http://www.roosh.com - The Mothership, with a little bit of everything!

[This message has been edited by Roosh (edited 12-10-1999).]
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Old 12-10-1999, 11:30 PM   #5
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I disagree on Ariakas's point. If only the arguement itself is argue in a way of peaceful situation. but there are alot of the arguement that started just like asking for a fight.

Just like in "NEW SET OF RULE FOR GETPAID4" that started by me http://www.very-cool-stuff.com/ubb/smile.gif,

KHN brough up an issue "he think Teknosurf spam the yahoo chat", KHN expressed his believe in a way that without much solid support.

and Teknosurf staff stated:"You had better have more then you posted to back that up - quite frankly, I really don't appreciate your accusations with no backing."

actually the words that used by Teknosurf staff is consider as serious discussion and asking for more proof. but it still filled KHN mind with anger.

The whole point is like this, not many guys out there can really take a serious arguement and don't turn out to be a fight. a lot to be learn before a guy can do this, u know http://www.very-cool-stuff.com/ubb/smile.gif. Just for some concern of the BBS, i agree on this kind of ARGUEMENT should take place in email or personally.

well, just me opinion too http://www.very-cool-stuff.com/ubb/wink.gif

Azecen the great

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Old 12-10-1999, 11:42 PM   #6
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I'm relatively new to this board but I must say it is the best I have come accross when it comes to providing accurate information and intelligent discussion.

It is impossible for any forum to cater to everyone so I think it is necessary to provide certain guidelines and outline certain objectives. Even a graffiti board has objectives.

This isn't the best example but how would you feel if you enrolled in a English class and the students kept asking questions related to quantum mechanics? This board is extremely focused on providing a certain kind of discussion on specific topics. If the moderators allow the outer boundaries to expand too far, then the board will degenerate relative to its focus.

I apreciate the focus of this board immensely and that is why I enjoy coming here. If the focus is not maintained, then this board's uniqueness will dissipate. So I place my vote for maintaining the current structure as outlined by Steve.

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Old 12-11-1999, 12:19 AM   #7
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Thumbs up

just my opinions

overall, i think admin does a pretty good and fair job. considering the legal pressure (threatening emails) some ad networks try to put on them and the members of this forum (including me, but i haven't received any such emails lately) for post that are made here.

running this type of forum isn't for the weak hearted. i know i've personally made admin's heart skip some beats a few times. which i would like to apologize for.

hope i didn't upset anybody with this post. http://www.very-cool-stuff.com/ubb/wink.gif

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Old 12-11-1999, 02:30 AM   #8
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As I see it, these 'clashes' are unavoidable between a webmaster who thinks he was mistreated by a sponsor, and a sponsor who has an image to maintain in front of the webmasters community.

Now, the community is usualy the webmasters' only source of feedback and support in these 'clashes' - the sponsors have the check books on their side and probably the more expensive lawyers. On the other hand, these check books and lawyers will not do a sponsor any good unless he is deemed trustworthy by the community.

Most cases of unresolved disputations are a lose-lose situation.

I believe it should be of this community's interest to maintain a board where both sides can speak up. Perhaps a specific forum for disputations should be created and all threads who degenerate to a dispute on the other forums should be redirected there. Rules should be just as strict and claims should be backed up with fact. But the disputation in itself should be allowed to take place.

Just my 2c
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Old 12-11-1999, 03:02 AM   #9
Thomas Jennings
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Hello peeps,
I'd like to let you in on alittle secret.
Life ***** and do-do happens..... and whoever said "Momma said life is like a box of chocolate", either had a fat lazy and rich mother that was ignorant to the real world or must have been a real gump....
Meaning? Rules can really bite, but there are reasons for them. You personally may not need them but there is always someone out there just itching to crash everyones party.
Ariakas, I understand your point and I think you nailed a very important point. It's YOUR Forum (meaning Steve of course).

I can personally vouch for Steve's dedication to this forum and the rest of the Geek Village that he provides. Having known Steve for over 2 years now, I can honestly say he truely has the best interest of this forum in mind by keeping the forum flame to a respectable level. Some of you may remember some rather unsettling incidents that have taken place on other forums on other sites where a rather unscrupulous hosting company commonly partakes in running its customers through the ringer and fellow forum patrons legitimately warned others of their practices. You may also remember that dozens of other forum patrons chipped in with their incidents and proof of these accusations. I myself, although not making mention of it, was victim to their garbage.

What has this got to do with anything? Well, I really thought that was a GREAT resources for both new and veteran webmasters. I mean why not provide others with the Good and just as importantly the BAD on the web...
But, many of those webmasters of those forums were faced with a team of Lawyers from the hosting company in question with a lawsuit!
You take for granted that you can come in here, post your say and leave without any worry that what someone else has said will threaten your forum and whatever financial sanity you have. In todays sue happy society, true Freedom Of Speech is a myth, and reguardless of who said it, you as the forum owner can be held liable. If a company has a pod of lawyers on staff what do they lose by sicking them on you? Nothing at all. Whether you win or lose the case, YOU LOSE. Unless you are so rich you think its fun to blow tons money defending yourself against someone trying to exploit you and distort the truth about you. Not to mention, alot more good comes from mature and sensible discussion than from heated, overblown, demeaning and negative belittlement.

Lets all remember that we do not have to deal with all of the negative aspects of dealing with this forum. We simply get all of the positives. The least we can do is act civilized and in a uplifting and beneficial manner. Not to mention you wouldnt want someone flinging do-do around in your house. Even if the walls are an off white eggshell color! hehe

Mr S. would be less than wise to not supply some rules. He shows his wisdom in placing those rules both for the forums safety and for our added success.

Thank you Steve and Keep Up The Good Work.

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[This message has been edited by Thomas Jennings (edited 12-11-1999).]
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Old 12-11-1999, 05:34 AM   #10
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Steve, Questy, and Wildcomputer,
I'd like to thank you for the wonderful job you guys do here. I think this is a great forum.

notboring.com - The most boring place on earth. Not!!!

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Old 12-11-1999, 07:11 AM   #11
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Since the Web positively overflows with unregulated "communities" (note the quotation marks, please!) where people can post whatever they like, it is *precisely* the moderation and control that makes forums such as this both valuable and few & far between.

And when you take a really good, hard look at the very low-level discussions that take place in unregulated forums, you'll also come to the same conclusion.

Several people have posted on this thread stating that this BBS should be more free and less "supervised". In my view, that would take the whole point away. Why replicate something you can find on 10,000 other sites (unstructured, almost anarchic conversation) when instead we have civilized dialogue and a *genuine* opportunity for many people to learn and exchange views in a friendly environment.

Steve, my hat comes off to you... I will be starting up my own forums in a matter of weeks, and I'll be wrestling with the same problems, no doubt.

In the meantime, more power to your keyboard finger!


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Old 12-11-1999, 09:22 AM   #12
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I mean, you filter the word "STI.NKS" from the BBS....

We can't even say sc.am!

And since when were arguments not permitted on this BBS?

You lock every interesting thread there is.

If I wanted some strict rules, I'd go to military school man.

We can't even say that a sponsor is a sc.am without the thread being locked.


[This message has been edited by Bryan (edited 12-11-1999).]
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Old 12-11-1999, 11:36 AM   #13
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Yeah, maybe knock off the censors. If I write "scr-wed" it comes out as "******" making it look like I wrote a swear. I think everyone on this forum can handle the word "scr-wed" and "sc-m".
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Old 12-11-1999, 01:27 PM   #14
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I agree that the board should remained strictly focused, and it does for the most part. The one thing about it, is the way its "done". I'm thinking there may be a better method of keeping order and peace and such around the board rather than locking every thread that even mentions any word about sc.am or such. Not to be mean, but it seems like locking some threads (that shouldn't be) and being so strict, is just a way to avoid reality. This is reality, no utopia. To have a real "forum" people need to be able to express themselves fully, including saying words that you block out. I think its sad that its not allowed to do such simple things and I think it is like you treat us like children. Arguments can help shed light on issues, programs and such. Not all should be locked. Of course, some stuff should be. I don't know..I agree this board is just way to strict to express (personally) *MY* true opinion on people, programs and things in general..and if its supressing my ability to express these things, im sure it is others, making one of the main goals of this board (to express opinion on programs) difficult in itself.
Just my 4 cents!
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Old 12-11-1999, 08:23 PM   #15
Thomas Jennings
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Ariakas, I concede, everyone on this forum can handle the words "scr-wed" and "sc-m" but the fork in the road from which you utter your folly is blinded from the following foresight...

1) Others can follow the criterion placed on us by the dominion of this forum, whether they like them or not, understanding that they are for the good of everyone.

2) Others have obtained a consciousness in life beyond that of infantile plateaus and can elaborate eloquently enough to convey, at a minimum, a semi-sagacious thought without having to resort to the trite commonalty of cheap derivatives of four letter words.

All is not lost grasshopperson, for the enlightenment gained from roads traversed are not always as translucent as they may first emanate. Come, perambulate the path to knowledge...
Merriam-Webster Dictionary...
And once you have become drunken from this well, journey on ...
Then if you wish to wet your thirst for more...

Go, and be well. May you perpetuate your vocabulary from the fountain of sagaciousness and suffer no longer the infliction of intransitive and subordinate speech, transmigrating from that which was inconsequential to being filled with an auspicious and laconic hereafter.

Translation: Chill out dood, we ain't in your pad. Love it or leave it but whatever you do respect it. Steve has worked hard and has offered this forum at no cost to you and the other thankful patrons. Why would you want to cause him any additional stress?

Please respect his wishes.

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