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Old 03-25-2005, 05:39 AM   #1
Jan

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Lightbulb For Sale! - Abuse_Spam - Great Deal!

Now that I have your attention, this forum is getting messy with 5 threads below bearing a ----Snipped---- title. The rules are layed out in a sticky above, but we all know many don't read stickies, so I will post those rules here for your attention.

Introduction and preliminary thoughts:

Welcome and best of luck with your deal. Please carefully read this entire document before you post. Thousands of very knowledgeable Publishers/Merchants will see your post every day. The Website For Sale - Purchase - Barter - Trade Forum has produced hundreds of sales and trades. Some of these deals were for 5 figures. The role of the GeekVillage Community Forums staff is to insure compliance with the rules/procedures on this page and create and maintain a quality, civil, and respectfull envoronment. We take this mission and obligation very seriously and hope you share our passion for quality and civility.

Your topic post must be a perfect and 100% pure fit in this Forum. If it's not, please Click here to learn more and purchase your advertisement. This Website For Sale - Purchase - Barter - Trade Forum is the only place on geek/talk to post your offers with other members.

Any post which violates the Rules/Procedures and or the spirit of same on this page will result in our immediate and permanent banning of your membership/posting privileges and the immediate removal of all your posts. We do not issue warnings.

REQUIRED DATA. Please copy and paste. If you wish to sell a site, please provide the following data in your initial post:

Topic/Post Title (Short and descriptive):
Your name:
Your Email address:
URL of the site:
Age of site:
Traffic statistics (PageViews & Uniques ONLY):
Source of traffic:
Asking price:
Gross and net revenue per month (Total):
The specific source of your revenue (Names/Details for each. DO NOT post your Google AdSense data):
Copyright status of the content on the site:
Any other pertinent data:

Please combine ALL your developed web site sales in a single post.

REQUIRED DATA. Please copy and paste. If you wish to sell a domain name, please provide the following data in your initial post:

Topic/Post Title (Short and descriptive):
Indicate you are selling a domain name only:
Your name:
Your Email address:
The domain name/names:
Asking price for each:
History and or other relavent data:

Please combine ALL your domain name sales in a single post.

REQUIRED DATA. Please copy and paste. If you wish to purchase a developed site, please provide the following data in your initial post:

Topic/Post Title (Short and descriptive):
Your name:
Your Email address:
The specific kinds (Niche) of sites you wish to purchase (NO Adult sites. Please be very specific):
Your budget:
Traffic requirements (PageViews and Uniques ONLY):
Revenue requirements:
Age of site:
Any other pertinent data:

RULES/GUIDENCE

1. A single free topic/post every 30 days
2. Combine all your offers into a single post
3. Edit your original post if your offer changes. If the edit period has expired, please contact us via our BB Feedback Form and only this form. Supply your edits. We will be happy to insert them.
4. Do not "push/bump" your own topic
5. Do not insert your own offer in another members topic
6. Your offer and responce must be 100% Website For Sale/Purchase
7. Do not respond to your own topic to change the terms
8. DO NOT use this Forum to exstract trafic to your site or any other site which sells, buys, trades, lists, or brokers Websites. This Forum is for selling your own web site and or domain name. This means you are the owner. Brokers with client properties must pay to advertise via: Click here to learn more and purchase your advertisement.
9. Enable the "Email Notification:" check box when you post your deal. Insure that your PM feature is turned on via your Member Control Panel. Folks that don't respond to questions on this Forum will be banned and the thread removed. This eliminates "drive by" sellers.
10. No adult sites please. Only mainstream sites.
11. Any post directly and or indirectly related to a "Fastclick account" are not permitted in this Forum or anywhere else and will be immediately removed. For example: "looking to buy (or sell) sites affiliated with fastclick" and other variations. The only permissible post is if a website owner wishes to post what their monthly Fastclick earnings are in their "For Sale" post.

Please comply with their procedures as per:

Quote:
Originally posted by Matt - Fastclick
Hello,

I wanted to jump in here and mention a few things. First, we do allow transfers for sites that have been sold. You may not switch your payment profile to the new owner, the new owner must create a new Fastclick account or add the site to their existing account. Please keep in mind that the site is still subject to our publisher agreement. Fastclick.com reserves the right to refuse service to any new or existing Publisher, in its sole discretion, with or without cause.

If you have sold a site and the new owner would like to continue to use Fastclick you must send an email to publish@fastclick.com and CC the new owner stating that you would like to have the site removed from your account.

Regards,
Matt Oettinger
Media Account Manager
Fastclick.com, Inc.
12. A few members "trash" and or undermine other parties sales and or purchases. These remarks are often insulting, self serving, lack civility, of a trolling nature, and undermine and dilute our Culture. These kinds of posts will not be tolerated. They normally are statements, questions, comments, sarcasm. A few examples for your reading pleasure:

DUDE! No way!
Your site is not worth 15K. It's worth about $1.00
YEA! This means my site is worth 4K
Is <site name>a joke Site? <site URL> $20,000?
Your buyer paid to much!
Template sites have NO value!
You askie to much!
I have a headache and my girlfriend would not engage in xxxxx last night so your site is JUNK!


The duties and responsability of the GeekVillage Community Forums Staff:

The role of the GeekVillage Community Forums staff is to insure and maintain a quality, civil, and respectfull environment for all parties. Suitable for a mainstream audience. We may perform our own due dillegence on your deal and may ask you some questions to help both parties. We exspect and require answers. We are experts at flushing out fraudelent deals. We are accutely aware of the numerous kinds of abusive sales which occur. We also have a long history working with law enforcement and federal/state authorities. If any of this makes your nervous or concerned, then please don't post your deal. With these facts in mind please:

If you need advice or have questions, please only use our BB Feedback Form before you post.

All posts in this Forum will be closely examined for compliance with these rules and our BB Rules and BB Posting Guide. Please do not insult our inteligence with attempts to subvert the letter and or spirit of our procedures. If you find our Rules and or procedures inconsistent with your desires, please immediately leave and do not return.

Any post which violates the Rules/Procedures and or the spirit of same on this page will result in our immediate and permanent banning of your membership/posting privileges and the immediate removal of all your posts. We do not issue warnings.

Tips - Perform your due dillegence

1. Avoid wild claims. Our Community won't be impressed and you are unlikely to "fool" anyone.
2. Subdued and straightforward short copy works best.
3. Place your email/contact address in your original post. Visitors can't view your profile or send you a PM.
4. Insure that your member profile is properly completed via the Member Control Panel. Insure that you have enabled PM and subscribed to your thread.
5. All posts must contain ALL the details necessary to make an informed decision in your initial post. Posts which use a site link for details are never acceptable. Posts which strive to extract traffic from this BB are never acceptable.
6. Please exercise caution and good judgment before entering into any transaction. Please perform your "due dillegence" and use an escrow service (https://www.escrow.com/index.asp) on all transactions. These transactions may have legal and tax implications. We suggest you consult with your attorney and or accountant before you engage in this type of transaction.
7. Use the Print Link at the top or bottom of your Topic to insure you have a permanent record of the deal.
8. Exspress your traffic via PageViews and Uniques. Please DO NOT use "hits" in this context.
9. We are not responsible for the validity of any financial transaction in the geek/talk Forums @ GeekVillage.com
10. Verify income with tax returns, bank statements, deposit statements, and other bank records.
11. Carefully examine the source of the traffic to the site, and verify via third parties.
12. No sale/purchase is ever perfect.
13. Use an attorney and tax person for your purchase/sale and follow their advice.
14. Examine the content of the site and insure it does not violate any laws and determine exactly how and where it was obtained from.
15. Carefully read Item 11 of our Posting Guide for additional tips, resources, and advice..

Thank you in anticipation of at least reading this post, if not the forum rules before you post in the Website For Sale - Purchase - Barter - Trade forum
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Old 03-25-2005, 12:14 PM   #2
creabiz
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Jan,
I know you are not the owner but I would like to point out a few things to consider.

When you are so strick on boards like this you do lose a great deal of visitors. I speak from experiance in that when you try to run a forum and you are as aggressive as you guys have been you tend to run off a lot of repeat visitors.

A guy that works in the office with me had a site that was border line adult but had not nudity on the site. He posted the site on sitepoint and webmaster-talk and your site. You guys deleted his post and banned him while the other boards did not. He sells a lot of sites every week and he swears he will never post on your boards again. This is just one visitor but they do add up after a while.

Just my two cents worth but I do like your site and hope you continue to do well.
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Old 03-25-2005, 01:19 PM   #3
Larwee

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creabiz, there are a few things I'd like to say about this since I am a frequent poster here at Geek/Talk.

The only reason I am here is because of the strict rules. Actually there are times I wish they were even more strict than they are.

Geek/Talk isn't for everyone. It attracts certain types of people, but a lot of these people are very loyal.

There are plenty of places that let almost everything happen and you see adults acting like children and flame wars going on.

I have had memberships in such things several years ago and slowly got sick of them. As a result I didn't want to have any part of any forum.

I was a lurker here for over 5 years before I finally joined.

Geek/Talk is for people like me who just don't like what goes on in some of those other places.

Since Czar (Josh), the owner, and Steve_S, the founder of Geek/Talk will possibly both read this I'll say a few things that have been on my mind for a long time.

The biggest problem usually comes from new members. It is good to have new members but SOME of them are a big source of problems.

Often they only plan to post one time. It is either to deliver their spam or to sell a site.

I would like to see all new members restricted for a while. No one should be allowed to sell anything until they have been a member for a particular amount of time and until they have posted a certain amount of posts that were of some value.

Perhaps something like being a member for 1 or 2 months and/or after they have posted 10 times. The postings most be of some value and not something such as a one word post.

They could ask questions in case they don't have much to offer. But, at least do something that involves them in the community so they will have a feel of the community, and gain some respect for the community as a result of being involved in it.

On top of that before they are allowed to post for the first time they should be required to pass a simple test to make sure that they at least know the basic rules.

Often there will be some quality conversation going on that will be broken up by spam or rules violations generally from new posters.

In my opinion the rules aren't strict enough.

The people who run Geek/Talk have for years said it is a place of quality and not quantity. With rules that are more strict that quality would improve.

People come here who either don't know the rules or who don't care and post their spam.

Having lots of spam and people trying to sell things that are illegal, violate laws or that are worthless doesn't do anything to improve Geek/Talk. If it were allowed to go on without being stopped this would slowly become nothing more than an open sewer.

There are people here who have been members for several years who are very bright.

There are people who come here for help and they can receive the help they need.

Because of the rules, Geek/Talk has a lot of respect. It took years to gain this respect.

People can't just come here and sell whatever they want to sell. They can't come here and say whatever they want to say. They can't come here and deliver tons of spam.

I'm not the owner either. I am a member. Without members there isn't going to be a Geek/Talk.

I know a lot of members are just as sick of the spam that pops up as I am. They are sick of people wasting time and space trying to sell things that they shouldn't. They are sick and tired of people who are even told they are breaking the rules who still want to ignore them and not make the requested changes in order to be within the rules.

There are plenty of places for people who want to function with less rules.

At the same time, Geek/Talk serves a very useful purpose and every effort is made to do it in a civil manner.

creabiz, I notice you said that you do like the site. This means you must believe that at least some things are being done right or you wouldn't like it.

Recently a new member posted for the first time. The poster had read the rules and didn't want to violate any of them and expressed this concern in that first post.

Czar, the owner of Geek/Talk responded to that concern with the following which does a good job of putting all of those rules into a few words:
Quote:
Don't be too concerned about our rules. While they can seem intimidating at first, only those who deliberately attack others, post spam about their own or affiliated services and those who post abusive, deceptive or offensive content are affected. This allows the rest of our member base to enjoy a largely flame-free posting environment quite unlike most discussion boards of its type.
There are people who often complain about the rules. But once a person becomes a member and follows the rules, this is a great place. The rules are in place in order to allow Geek/Talk to have quality. A lot of members appreciate this and are proud to be members.

At the same time people who don't like the rules probably wouldn't be good members and in most cases shouldn't become members. Geek/Talk is for people who know and understand the rules and are willing to operate within those rules. These are the type of people who can help to make Geek/Talk even better. I, for one, am glad there are people who are willing to function under the Geek/Talk rules because these people have made Geek/Talk the quality place that it is.

Last edited by Larwee; 03-25-2005 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 03-25-2005, 08:45 PM   #4
Czar

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Thanks for your wonderfully supportive comments, larwee, and thanks creabiz for raising this issue.

Since larwee has done such a good job of emphasizing that Geek/Talk's focus is on fostering quality in its discourse, rather than on the quantity of posts or members that it may boast, we will always guide discussion in accordance with slightly stricter rules than those in place on other BBs.

As such, if your friend does want to post "borderline adult" sites for sale in the future, he's most welcome to do so on Sitepoint and Webmaster-Talk. A quick skim of our rules will highlight why this wasn't allowed here, since we have never supported the discussion or promotion of adults-only content on this family-friendly, professionally focused BB.

The "Site for Sale" forum has been both highly influential and painfully troublesome for years. On one hand, we have transacted 100s of thousands of dollars worth of websites and domains in this forum - all without charging the seller or the buyer a single penny for the privilege. We often even unofficially help to resolve conflicts and disagreements that may arise from a transaction, again at no cost to either party. I have personally purchased a number of domain names and websites through this BB, so I know only too well how valuable this free opportunity can be for sellers of web properties.

On the other hand, as we've seen during the past week, this forum's success has caused it to attract a number of drive-by site brokers who have no interest in other parts of Geek/Talk and no willingness to contribute to discussions with members of our community. Those who appear simply to sell a site - and who, painfully, still cannot follow our very simple rules for listing a site in this section - are taking advantage of the community. If they fail to adjust their post to include all requested information when asked to do so and/or if they post sites for sale that include adult-oriented material, stolen intellectual property or other offensive/illegal material, they will of course be banned from participation here as they offer no value to the community.

We treasure our members and our savvy readership, which includes reps from every single reputable online advertising network, a number of the web's most significant independent publishers, reknowned content creators and clever guys-n-girls taking their first entrepreneurial steps into the business. Those who come here to deliberately abuse the forum do a disservice to our members and to the efforts that Team Geek put into keeping this board clean and productive each day. We would rather have fewer posts than ask our members to sift through pages of junk to find information that is of relevance to them. I'm sure that you can understand the value in that proposition.
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Old 03-26-2005, 06:15 PM   #5
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My issue is not with what is allowed to be posted but the fact that the members are banned permantly without any warning. Many people do not read the rules due to the length. Hey what can I say we are all impatiant!

I did not mean to be negative in anyway to your site I just felt that a lifetime ban was a little tough for one bad post.
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Old 03-26-2005, 07:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by creabiz I did not mean to be negative in anyway to your site I just felt that a lifetime ban was a little tough for one bad post.
The person should have contacted an admin and tried to resolve the issue. As someone who has been banned, and then unbanned Im rather familiar with the process It just requires some communication and discussion and most issues like that can be resolved.
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Old 03-26-2005, 07:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by creabiz
My issue is not with what is allowed to be posted but the fact that the members are banned permantly without any warning. Many people do not read the rules due to the length. Hey what can I say we are all impatiant!

I did not mean to be negative in anyway to your site I just felt that a lifetime ban was a little tough for one bad post.
Hi creabiz,

Welcome to the "Village" and best of luck. Did you read the entire post of our resident Media Maven named larwee where he quoted the owner of this Community named Czar? He is saying in essence that it's a case by case issue. He has already answered your concerns. The problem is that if you decide to tell folks that you will infact warn them then a few will use this free ticket to abuse. Especially in this Community where we are talking about money with a lot of Networks present and it's outstanding reputation and following for nearly 7 years. Some Communities run fine this way and others do not.

Given your statement I can respectfully see some irony in it and at the end of the day weather to ban for life or not is left to the discression of the fine folks who run this place who do a really outstanding job. Some examples:

1. Your own original post was non compliant the first time you made it but the Admin chose to give you another chance to edit it. And yet you still wan't to debate the issue. See:

http://www.geekvillage.com/forums/sh...threadid=26994

2. Lets see, on the other hand it depends on exactly what was said in a given post and what has transpired before and exactly weather the member appears to be interested in the Community or just a drive by abuser. Lets try this for your reading pleasure:

http://www.geekvillage.com/forums/sh...threadid=25941

http://www.geekvillage.com/forums/sh...threadid=25694

Please take note of the IP. Three posts by Mark to help illustrate the issue. I actually remember this member who continued to violate the rules even after that post was snipped with a brand new non compliant new thread which any visitor or member could read. THis new thread ALSO violated the rules. And prior to that. I could certainly be wrong about my memory but it's normally pretty good and I hope this example helps you understand the issue with 2 very very specific examples.

I have even done post ban audits where I took the time to email banned members, explained to them why they were banned, and most importantly of all, offered them a second chance back in after they answered my politer email. Out of 20 I sent, 2 attacked and slandered and the other 18 never responded. If one of them would have been like our talented Rivux we could have made the deal work

I'm confident that you could if you wish, find other Communities which will let folks violate the rules repeatedly, play the first, second and third chance game with warnings and be happy with the environment. Thats fine. Nothing personell.

Edit: Sorry, forgot to mention that this Forum only permits a single Post/Deal every 30 days and no ebay links. This is all good BUT if you and or your friends need to buy and sell often then your very best bet is:

http://www.dnforum.com/

Good folks over their. Please take the time to read every single word of their Rules and I'm sure an entire Community devoted to sales and purchases should make you or your associates very happy.

Good luck with your sale.

Last edited by Steve_S; 03-26-2005 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 03-27-2005, 01:55 PM   #8
Larwee

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I was just thinking. Yes, I really do actually think at times.

I put a link to something outside of Geek/Talk in a post that I made here at Geek/Talk.

I also started a thread about signatures.

These two particular events are what made me think, because they brought a few things back in my mind.

There are some new people who come here and really don't want to do anything wrong and they have said it in the first post that they made.

I have seen people who wanted to put a helpful link in their post but were afraid to do so because there are some other forums that don't allow people to put any links in what they post. They were surprised they could do it here at Geek/Talk.

I have also seen comments from people who were surprised they could use a signature with their postings at Geek/Talk because there are some forums that don't allow the use of signatures.

While there are some people who say that Geek/Talk is too strict, there are also some people who think some other forums are too strict and some of the things those others don't permit are permitted at Geek/Talk.

The short quote I posted earlier from Czar does a good job of stating what shouldn't be done at Geek/Talk, and to me they seem very reasonable.

Actually, what it probably comes down to whether it is Geek/Talk or another forum is when a poster wants to do something and that forum doesn't permit it, then the poster considers that forum to be too strict.
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Old 03-28-2005, 11:56 PM   #9
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responsability

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Old 03-29-2005, 12:24 AM   #10
Jan

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Quote:
Originally posted by larwee
Actually, what it probably comes down to whether it is Geek/Talk or another forum is when a poster wants to do something and that forum doesn't permit it, then the poster considers that forum to be too strict.
How true that is, no matter which forum you post at, they have rules. It is up to members to actually read them before they hit the submit button, that way there are no surprises if your post is removed/edited.
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Old 04-01-2005, 09:25 AM   #11
Larwee

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I still say some very serious thought should be given to my suggestion of not letting a person come here and make their first post as an effort to sell something. I said that in my first posting in this thread.

Over and over it becomes more obvious that so many of these people either don't know the rules or don't care about the rules.

They should be required to be a member long enough to know and understand the rules before they are allowed to sell anything.

Another thing is the fact the rules are so long. The most important things could be said in just a few words.

A person should be required to know these basic rules before they can post something for sale.

It is very obvious that the present system isn't working and won't work if things continue to be done the same way.

People continue to post in violation of the rules and in the vast majority of the cases it is with people who are making their first post with Geek/Talk. Sometimes it is people who have been around for a while, but most of the time it is first time posters. Many of these first time posters only become members to make that one sale and are never heard from again.

Either they shouldn't be allowed to post something for sale until they better understand the workings of Geek/Talk or there should be a short simple edition of the rules in addition to the very long statement of rules, or a combination of these two suggestions. At times the postings which don't comply with the rules are found by moderators fairly quickly. In other times they remain for 12 hours or more before they are seen by a moderator, and there are 7 moderators.

Another thing to consider, and this might be a good solution is to handle them the way the paid advertising postings are handled.

They would be screened before they are posted. If they aren't as they should be they are corrected before the public ever sees them and if they aren't corrected they are never posted. This way people will only see postings that comply with the rules.

Perhaps some other Geek/Talk members have some suggestions but it is clear something needs to be done because it is clear that things are not working as they should under the present system.

Last edited by Larwee; 04-01-2005 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 04-01-2005, 10:05 AM   #12
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Agreed Lawree. This seems to be the one forum where attempts at deception are common and remain for all to see. These Ebay-style posts are in stark contrast to the remaining high quality forums.
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Old 04-01-2005, 10:49 AM   #13
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Rather than putting "snipped" in the title - how about just deleting the spam posts? I probably get many times the # of spam posts on my forum - deleting them takes care of the problem and keeps the board free of garbage.

While I understand the need to maintain forum rules and guidelines, the rules for this site are BY FAR the longest I have ever seen. I doubt more than a few have ever read all of them.

A perfect example is this thread. You could simply delete the spam, but instead we have another posting of the rules which is much longer than most of us are willing to spend time reading. I skimmed the first couple paragraphs. If I read all these rules I would be out of time to browse actual content.

The results are obvious. This is a forum that could/should be a leading tech forum. As it is now it gets very few posts in a day compared to other sites.

And Steve - I double dog dare you to actually respond to a post of mine rather than avoid the issues I raise.
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Old 04-01-2005, 11:12 AM   #14
Larwee

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TheMonkey, I don't know if you have read this thread http://www.geekvillage.com/forums/sh...threadid=25596

Steve is the founder of Geek/Talk and WAS the owner for over 6 years. However, it was sold to Czar. Steve is called a consultant now.

The rules as well as a lot of things Steve wrote are still here. As time passes Czar may or may not change some of those things and/or put his name on them. But that takes a while.

This particular problem as well as everything else related to how Geek Village is operated depends upon what Czar decides since he is the owner now.

I have known Czar for several years through correspondence. One thing I will say for him is that he will listen to suggestions and he is willing to change when change is needed.

If Geek/Talk members continue to complain about something they don't like he will listen.

I for one plan to continue to complain about this situation if it continues to happen since it has now gotten to the point now where this situation impacts on the quality of Geek/Talk and distracts from the postings of higher quality.

Last edited by Larwee; 04-01-2005 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 04-01-2005, 11:27 AM   #15
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Yeah Czar seems like a good guy.

I previously made a post similar to the one above. Steve just deleted it - that was his repsonse. I run a very large forum so I know a thing or two about what it takes to run one. It would be nice to be able to have a discussion about it rather than being silenced.

Edit: I'm off on vacation! This discussion will have to be finished at another time.

Last edited by TheMonkey; 04-01-2005 at 11:33 AM.
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