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Old 12-02-2001, 03:36 PM   #1
koolio
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Default Stop Publisher Fraud

I already posted this in another section but didnt get any help, so maybe this section will help me more.

Im interested in advertising on cj, but i got a question about publisher fraud. Say, I offer 1 buck per lead, and there are many publishers who are getting people who are not interested in signing up illegally, spam, or someother way, and I pay them there check. Then we kick someone off who has been constently cheating us for 4 month. What can I do about getting my money back from the people who commited fraud with us? Is there any way?
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Old 12-02-2001, 05:27 PM   #2
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Not really...Once a check is gone it's gone. If you are fortunate to catch it before the most recent check clears you can always put a stop payment on it.

But for the previous ones you would have to have documented proof that would stand up in court that they committed fraud to get those funds back. I am sure no one will send you all the money back that they made just upon your request so it would have to go to the courts. Simply saying "well he cheated this time so that must mean he always cheated" will not be good enough.

The best thing you can do is make sure that everyone you are paying is legitimately earning the funds before you send them out.
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Old 12-02-2001, 06:34 PM   #3
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Thats what I was thinking, but I will say honestly I have seen people cheating advertisers and making more then thousands so I was just wondering, but your absoultley right, it will not hold up in court.
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Old 12-02-2001, 06:41 PM   #4
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Thats what I was thinking, but I will say honestly I have seen people cheating advertisers and making more then thousands so I was just wondering, but your absoultley right, it will not hold up in court.
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Old 12-02-2001, 07:34 PM   #5
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It absolutely will hold up in court if properly documented and adequately presented as evidence.

We have collected on fraud that was not discovered until a check was issued. And we've collected inside and outside the USA.

If someone is stealing from you every day for a week and you don't catch them until the 8th day it doesn't mean that they are allowed to keep what they stole in the previous 7 days.
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Old 12-03-2001, 03:49 PM   #6
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yes, but this isnt 8 days, lets say its 8 months, were the total amount of money which was pretty much stolen can become 12,000 dollars...then what?
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Old 12-03-2001, 04:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by koolio
yes, but this isnt 8 days, lets say its 8 months, were the total amount of money which was pretty much stolen can become 12,000 dollars...then what?
Do you have documentation to prove that it was stolen? Without proof, there is virtually nothing you can do.
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Old 12-03-2001, 06:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by koolio
yes, but this isnt 8 days, lets say its 8 months, were the total amount of money which was pretty much stolen can become 12,000 dollars...then what?
Then you are bumming!
Personally, I think anyone getting away with it for that long would be your own fault anyways.
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Old 12-03-2001, 07:20 PM   #9
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lol, this is just one of my conerns. It hasnt happened to me. I was just saying what i could do if it did happen by chance.
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Old 12-03-2001, 09:58 PM   #10
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Using that 8 days example again, you would have to have proof that the publisher cheated on all 8 days, which can often be more difficult then just proving they cheated on the 8th day. Really the only safe way is to just do extensive checking of your records before sending checks out. You should especially look for those people that seem to be outperforming everyone else by a lot. I know some advertisers (cough, Search Cactus, cough) have started to turn the whole cheating game around, taking back commissions from affiliates in what seems like a random effort. I'm not sure how they can make a reversal on a lead, when I know that I never signed up myself nor tried anything fraudulent with their program. I'm not saying they are doing this with everyone or every lead, but they have done it to my account a few times, and I would just like to say that I am noticing it and I don't like it. Cheating publishers is wrong, Beware of Search Cactus !
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Old 12-04-2001, 02:42 AM   #11
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David, that's not exactly the case. Generally, if a publisher breaks a given program's Terms of Service on any one day within the period in question, they will rightfully have their earnings withheld and/or their account cancelled.

Running a hitbot on just the 4th of the month doesn't indicate that revenue generated through 'legitimate' means on the other days should be delivered to the deliberate offender. Evidence gathered to document the one incident of fraud, when presented with a TOS stating that such action will result in a withholdinig of earnings would be enough to justify such a reaction if challenged through formal channels.

As for your comments regarding Search Cactus, those do not belong here, and should be part of a Complaint Thread if you'd like to bring your experience to the attention of publishers here, or to seek resolution. Instructions for posting a Complaint Thread (to which we request that you adhere precisely) may be found within Item 5 of our posting guide.
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Old 12-04-2001, 05:49 PM   #12
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Keep a tight reign on your definition of a lead or sale. e.g. amazon.com would very difficult to defraud because you only get paid the money when someone sends them money and they send out a book.

Not even public korean proxies can buy thousands of books and get them delivered, without paying.

CPAs should be based on giving the publisher a % of what you earn from the leads they generate, hence the way to go is to keep a watchful eye on your profit and loss.
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