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Old 12-24-2002, 06:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by joma
P.S. Is there even a way of finding out how many "non-media" items you sold in the current quarter? Do marketplace items count?
I'm going to assume that Amazon will break these out once the new system and TOS is in place. Until then, you can enter your reporting section and click on the 'Traffic reports' link to produce an itemized list of the items sold through your links.
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Old 12-26-2002, 04:43 PM   #17
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I voted classic, and I think I made the right choice.
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Old 12-26-2002, 09:04 PM   #18
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I dont intend to make a decision until I have to. January 20th ?

Who knows what is going to be released in this new operating agreement on Dec. 31st, so I will wait until then.

I am hoping my testing will make the choice a moot point

Rhea, one thing that has me concerned about indigo is their chargeback. Looking at their history, it seemed to start in June, and just kept growing. I know they were going through a restructuring, (chapters indigo merger) but for it to continue into december at 17% seems a bit high. There was even talk of them supplying amazon.ca, which could explain a shortfall, if Amazon negotiated first rights.

We have never had an item returned in 4 years on the net, so if we see some returns, I will definitely be dropping their marketing department a line.
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Old 12-26-2002, 11:24 PM   #19
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I will wait to the last moment, but expect to choose classic

While I believe that we would earn more from the new program (e.g. non-media requirements easily met, slight higher % rate commission), I do not believe it is in our company's best interest to give what would easily be many millions of impressions for the easy links just to earn a bit more thru Amazon

I would rather keep our home pages to monetize as we see fit, and forgo this extra commission

I also assume the non-media requirements is to increase Amazon's revenue for electronics, computers, etc. The $10 cap seems to run contrary to this, as the incentive seems to be either to promote items under $200 or to find alternative merchants for computers etc which have a fixed % rate and no cap.
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Old 12-27-2002, 06:38 AM   #20
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Hi Timo, I'm concerned about the chargeback status of chapters.indigo also. I think it might be useful to send them an email through CJ and ask them about it. If they don't reply...bad sign. If they do reply and have a reasonable explanation...good sign. There are so many reasons that could account for a high charge-back.

Another concern I have is whether Americans will buy from a company that lists its prices in Canadian dollars. This could be an interesting social experiment! lol!

But...at 15 percent commission I only have to sell a third as much as I've sold with Amazon to make the same money. And I don't have to kowtow to Amazon's ridiculous bait-and-switch scheme. I don't like rewarding bad affiliate practices by going along for the ride. I truly believe that Amazon set us up in Q4 with the increased commission structure as a ploy to get us to work their program heavily before they pulled the rug out from under us. People who invested a lot of time and effort in building their Amazon stores will be reluctant to dump their program now...and I think that's what Amazon was counting on. Nasty behavior for a major affiliate program. Unprofessional at best...slimey at worst.
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Old 12-27-2002, 08:51 AM   #21
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Wild, I'm guessing that a major element leading to the non-media term is the push to build a rapid uptake in their new apparel division. Amazon has a lot of big brands to court through the experiment, and unless they produce some numbers in the vicinity of their core categories, Gap and others may instead opt to go it alone. Anyway, just a thought.

Rhea, although US residents are more familiar with the US:Can exchange rate than those of most other nations, I do imagine that your sales volume will decrease to a notable degree.

Quick case study: One of my clients is an Australian-based manufacturer of magnetic health products who buys online, magazine and other print media around the world. Only one of their local promotions (sponsorship of sporting events) overtly builds the brand, while most of their efforts rather pitch the products and the results that they produce. As such, the discrepancy I'm about to mention doesn't come from a major difference in the methods they market to different communities. Anyway, although about 20% of the website's visitors are based in the USA or Canada, all prices on the site and shopping cart are listed in AUD (and this is the only currency the business can accept through their current merchant account), these visitors account for only 1-2% of the site's monthly sales on average. This is despite the fact that the exchange rate works in their favor to a dramatic margin (whereby products are effectively available at discounts of 20-50% through the exchange alone).

I'm sure that the presence of Canadian prices in the cart won't be quite the weakness that's evidented above, but it will very likely prove a hindrance to some.

BTW, I'd love to hear about your results if you do go ahead and switch all of your links over.
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Old 12-27-2002, 08:57 AM   #22
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I just dropped an email to Indigo-Chapters so lets see what happens. I told them in the email I would be sharing info in this thread.

If they only ship to Canada, I guess I will have to build a new site or geotarget ads. The former seems more likely since I have content intermingled with ads. <sigh>

another thought:
Looking down the road for amazon, what happens when they have amazons in 20 countries? Are we supposed to have a link to every one of them on a page to ensure commish?seems laughable but entirely possible.

Wildcomputer, I agree. Amazon doesn't get my front page without paying $$.

Last edited by Timo; 12-27-2002 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 12-27-2002, 11:39 AM   #23
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Quote:
I just dropped an email to Indigo-Chapters so lets see what happens. I told them in the email I would be sharing info in this thread.
Perhaps Indigo could be persuaded to allow the use of a special affiliate linking code which sets a cookie that instructs the site to then display all prices in US$ instead of Can$? Or they can just display all prices in both currencies, if they're getting significant traffic from the US.

BTW, how does Indigo's shipping cost and shipping delay time compare to Amazon's, for customers living in the US?
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Old 12-28-2002, 07:20 AM   #24
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I went through the books category on CJ and made myself a little chart of the various merchants including data like 3 Month
Network EPC, 7 Day Network EPC, Sale/Lead, Cookie Duration, and Reversals. I removed a couple of merchants because they're really not booksellers.

It's in html and I don't know how to get it to display properly in VB, so you'll have to copy/paste it into your fave html editor. Enjoy!

<table cellSpacing="1" cellPadding="2" border="0" width="575">
<TBODY>
<tr bgColor="#cccccc">
<td width="163">Advertiser </td>
<td noWrap width="86">3 Month<br>
Network EPC </td>
<td noWrap width="86">7 Day<br>
Network EPC </td>
<td width="50">Sale </td>
<td width="38">Lead </td>
<td width="52">Cookie<br>
Duration</td>
<td width="60">Reversals</td>
<td width="60">Product Links</td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">abebooks.co.uk</td>
<td width="86">$2.46 </td>
<td width="86">$6.04 </td>
<td width="50">5.00% </td>
<td width="38">$0.75 </td>
<td width="52">45</td>
<td width="60">0.00</td>
<td width="60"></td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">Abebooks.com</td>
<td width="86">$2.05 </td>
<td width="86">$8.96 </td>
<td width="50">5.00% </td>
<td width="38">$0.75 </td>
<td width="52">45</td>
<td width="60">0.00</td>
<td width="60"></td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">Allworth Press</td>
<td width="86">$2.99 </td>
<td width="86">$3.01 </td>
<td width="50">15.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">180</td>
<td width="60">73.60</td>
<td width="60">188</td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">BiggerBooks.com</td>
<td width="86">$11.02 </td>
<td width="86">$11.98 </td>
<td width="50">5.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">30</td>
<td width="60">0.00</td>
<td width="60"></td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">BookCloseouts.com</td>
<td width="86">$9.87 </td>
<td width="86">$3.49 </td>
<td width="50">10.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">45</td>
<td width="60">0.00</td>
<td width="60">6</td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">Books-For-Cooks.com</td>
<td width="86">$0.55 </td>
<td width="86">$1.16 </td>
<td width="50">5.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">30</td>
<td width="60">0.00</td>
<td width="60"></td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">BOOKSAMILLION.COM</td>
<td width="86">$6.18 </td>
<td width="86">$6.38 </td>
<td width="50">3.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">45</td>
<td width="60">6.00</td>
<td width="60"></td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">Chapters.Indigo.ca</td>
<td width="86">$14.94 </td>
<td width="86">$25.30 </td>
<td width="50">15.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">60</td>
<td width="60">17.50</td>
<td width="60">1,000+</td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">Doublediscount.com</td>
<td width="86">$2.08 </td>
<td width="86">$6.81 </td>
<td width="50">6.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">1</td>
<td width="60">17.00</td>
<td width="60">1,000+</td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">eBay.co.uk</td>
<td width="86">$8.73 </td>
<td width="86">$8.85 </td>
<td width="50">N/A </td>
<td width="38">$4.50 </td>
<td width="52">30</td>
<td width="60">0.00</td>
<td width="60"></td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">eBooks.com</td>
<td width="86">$0.99 </td>
<td width="86">$0.00 </td>
<td width="50">9.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">45</td>
<td width="60">3.10</td>
<td width="60">1,000+</td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">ecampus.com</td>
<td width="86">$17.10 </td>
<td width="86">$14.73 </td>
<td width="50">5.00% </td>
<td width="38">$1.75 </td>
<td width="52">30</td>
<td width="60">10.90</td>
<td width="60">1,000+</td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">eHarlequin.com</td>
<td width="86">$8.60 </td>
<td width="86">$9.68 </td>
<td width="50">5.00% </td>
<td width="38">$1.00 </td>
<td width="52">45</td>
<td width="60">6.80</td>
<td width="60">34</td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">ElephantBooks.com</td>
<td width="86">$3.80 </td>
<td width="86">$2.42 </td>
<td width="50">12.50% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">45</td>
<td width="60">0.00</td>
<td width="60"></td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">nEntrepreneur.com</td>
<td width="86">$2.10 </td>
<td width="86">$6.51 </td>
<td width="50">10.00% </td>
<td width="38">$2.00 </td>
<td width="52">30</td>
<td width="60">0.00</td>
<td width="60">14</td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">Grab A Bargain.com</td>
<td width="86">$0.13 </td>
<td width="86">$0.00 </td>
<td width="50">$1.50 </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">30</td>
<td width="60">0.00</td>
<td width="60"></td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">Guideposts</td>
<td width="86">$0.62 </td>
<td width="86">$5.69 </td>
<td width="50">25.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">25</td>
<td width="60">0.00</td>
<td width="60"></td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">Half Price Computer Books</td>
<td width="86">$2.60 </td>
<td width="86">$5.10 </td>
<td width="50">10.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">45</td>
<td width="60">2.30</td>
<td width="60">354</td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">Half.com</td>
<td width="86">$11.97 </td>
<td width="86">$10.74 </td>
<td width="50">$5.00 </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">15</td>
<td width="60">0.00</td>
<td width="60"></td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">Ignatius Press</td>
<td width="86">$15.17 </td>
<td width="86">$19.34 </td>
<td width="50">10.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">45</td>
<td width="60">0.00</td>
<td width="60">1,000+</td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">Mailordercomics.com</td>
<td width="86">$3.37 </td>
<td width="86">$6.24 </td>
<td width="50">10.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">30</td>
<td width="60">0.00</td>
<td width="60">193</td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">Motorbooks.com</td>
<td width="86">$0.92 </td>
<td width="86">$1.24 </td>
<td width="50">6.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">45</td>
<td width="60">0.00</td>
<td width="60">1,000+</td>
</tr>
<tr bgColor="#ffffff">
<td width="163">Nelson Direct</td>
<td width="86">$5.12 </td>
<td width="86">$5.72 </td>
<td width="50">18.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">365</td>
<td width="60">3.80</td>
<td width="60">34</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="163">One Minute Millionaire</td>
<td width="86">$6.08 </td>
<td width="86">$24.10 </td>
<td width="50">50.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">180</td>
<td width="60">1.80</td>
<td width="60">1</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="163">Teacher Created Materials</td>
<td width="86">$1.89 </td>
<td width="86">$3.34 </td>
<td width="50">10.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">45</td>
<td width="60">0.20</td>
<td width="60">1,000+</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="163">TotalCampus.com</td>
<td width="86">$1.06 </td>
<td width="86">$1.63 </td>
<td width="50">5.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">3</td>
<td width="60">37.20</td>
<td width="60">3</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="163">World Book Store</td>
<td width="86">$9.78 </td>
<td width="86">$0.55 </td>
<td width="50">10.00% </td>
<td width="38">N/A </td>
<td width="52">45</td>
<td width="60">0.0</td>
<td width="60"></td>
</tr>
</table>

[EDIT: Added a column for quantity of Product Links.]

Last edited by Rhea; 12-28-2002 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 12-28-2002, 10:07 AM   #25
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Wonderful work, Rhea.

For those who'd prefer to peruse an online version of the table, feel free to visit the following URL:
http://www.net-ads.com/bookstores.html
(note the link at the bottom to Rhea's main site )

If nothing else, hopefully the presence of a growing list of competitors will force Amazon to continue improving its affiliate program, rather than taking steps backward.
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Old 12-28-2002, 11:27 AM   #26
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Awww! Thanks for the link, Czar! (Nice Google PR, BTW!)

I just figured there was no point in us all doing the same work to try to figure out which booksellers were worth checking out in depth. (Ain't I sweet?)

In the meantime, fickle creature that I am, I've signed up with www.powells.com. I've converted a few of my Amazon links to Powells links and it's almost ridiculously easy. On the Amazon discussion boards Powells is being promoted as a more affiliate friendly alternative to Amazon.

Powells has a 10% commish on all products. I don't know what the cookie duration is or what their reversal stats are like. I'm going to take a chance on them. I really like chapters.indigo's program on CJ but the USD to CAD conversion thingie is going to seriously impact sales from the US, I'm afraid. I'm already using them for a couple of links and will continue to do so for items I can't find elsewhere.

I'm also going to look really carefully at all the CJ bookseller affiliates on the list I made who have in excess of 1,000 product links. I will keep Amazon around for some types of links, but over time, unless they get their act together, they're going to be phased out.

The only way we affiliates can vote is with our feet. They balk...we walk!
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Old 12-28-2002, 01:35 PM   #27
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I am wondering if any other book (or other multi product vendors selling electronics, software, magazines etc.) offer XML or other data feeds to get the product data? I do not have time to manually retrieve lots of individual product links.
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Old 12-28-2002, 09:22 PM   #28
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OK here is the response from indigo-chapters

Question:

We noticed an increase in chargebacks, starting in June, and peaking at 17% in December. Can you explain the reasons for this? Is it due to increase in fraud, lack of inventory, merger pains etc?

Response:

There are lots of reasons for reversal of sales; such as returns,
insufficient funds, customer cancelled order, book has gone out of print or OSI, etc.

Question:

Where do you ship to?

Answer:

We ship to the following countries:

Canada
United States
Australia
Belgium
Bermuda
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Japan
Mexico
New Zealand
Norway
South Africa
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom

If you ship to the U.S. would you be willing to add a USD currency
converter?

We are a Canadian company so unfortunately we list our products in Canadian funds.

Thankyou
Tonya


Some thoughts:

I remember Vito's post about selling products in Cdn$. He felt it was a competitive advantage to him because U.S. purchasers got a huge discount due to the exchange rate.

Indigo certainly seems to be in the top earners in both 7 day and 3month EPC. 60 day cookie much better than amazons!
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Old 12-28-2002, 09:26 PM   #29
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> If you ship to the U.S. would you be willing to add a USD currency converter?
>
> We are a Canadian company so unfortunately we list our products in Canadian funds.

What kind of answer is that? The fact that they're a Canadian company doesn't preclude them from programming a USD currency converter on their website.
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Old 12-28-2002, 09:35 PM   #30
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tell me about it <sigh>.

They didnt answer why their chargebacks started in June either.

I am sure things like insufficient funds and books going out of print started long before June, unless thats when they joined CJ

nope: Joined: August 15, 2001

shipping particulars:

http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/articl...e&Cat=&Lang=en

Last edited by Timo; 12-28-2002 at 09:50 PM.
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