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Old 06-02-2001, 05:26 PM   #61
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LongDistanceService.com just stoped using CJ.

Here's a question about the bigger merchents that have a lot of sites using them, with the big transaction fee, wouldn't it save them money over time if they just paid some one to make there own affiliet program on there own site and just used that? Then there transaction fee would be $.00.

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Old 06-02-2001, 05:57 PM   #62
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Yep I got that one in email this morning. There was a hosting company, I forget the name, as well today, plus in the CJ mail box, there was a couple more (sweeps I think)

Nintendo, yeh a merchant could go buy the scripts off the shelf. For example, I know loads of per-sale programs that use groundbreak successfully. I think the advantage of CJ is that it's perceived to be easier to run, and more popular with the mass of affiliates, because of things like aggregated payment.


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Old 06-02-2001, 06:17 PM   #63
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CJ's going to have to think this over.

Merchants and affiliates both are going to leave in masses if they do not change their policies.

My question - why not just fire some employees? This kind of operation doesn't really need that many employees. I'm sure they have many more than they need. Remember AllAdvantage?
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Old 06-02-2001, 11:16 PM   #64
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Jemma - I have a greeting card site and whilst I don't have a lot of revenue from cj, greeting card merchants do okay as TEXT links. I have been a bit dubious in adding a banner to every page (for one thing I don't really like banners on webpages and I have been basically testing the company) so only the three main entry pages have them.

But I have snuck in a few text links in here and there and they do okay :-)
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Old 06-03-2001, 05:53 AM   #65
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I'm with Edwin on this one. The reality of needing a sound business model for long-term survival has been a long time coming. These types of major industry changes and shifts signify the core of self-correction. Once the dust clears, things will get better in general overall, for sound business models.

I see CJ just doing what it takes for long term survival. They are smart enough to figure out what it's going to take, and are making changes now, before getting close to failure. Wouldn't you?

Also, EPC ratings should not be affected by showing more banners than text links, as EPC=Earnings Per Click. So, it doesn't matter if you only get 1 click per 10k impressions, the click conversions are rated, not the banner views.
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Old 06-03-2001, 05:54 AM   #66
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The Free Chocolate Page just dropped from CJ. Too bad as I
did at least $1000 of business with them every month. This makes
me wonder if there will be any under-a-buck CPA program left on
CJ when all is said and done. Funny thing is I cannot see how
they'll gain from this. Surely these little CPA programs that are
closing down represent a fair amount of their income?

If nothing else, CJ's decision shows bad timing. The Net's
advertising industry is suffering pretty bad right now and they decide
to destroy CPA programs. What are they thinking?


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Old 06-03-2001, 06:35 AM   #67
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Quote:
Also, EPC ratings should not be affected by showing more banners than text links, as EPC=Earnings Per Click. So, it doesn't matter if you only get 1 click per 10k impressions, the click conversions are rated, not the banner views.
Wrong, text links not only get more clicks, but the clicks convert better too
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Old 06-03-2001, 07:33 AM   #68
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>the clicks convert better too

True, but is the difference in conversion enough to warrant an affiliate making site-wide changes, when they haven't already done so for increased revenue, just for a better CJ rating? IMO, no.

Guess we just respectfully disagree here. http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif
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Old 06-03-2001, 08:14 AM   #69
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Well I just did a report on my CJ merchant stats.

On average this year
- the CPM + CTR for text links is several times higher than banners
- the overall CR for *all* banners + buttons is somewhat, consistently, lower than text
- none of the 468X60 banners is in the same league as for text links for CR. For the top 4 (by impressions), the CR varies from about 1/6th to 2/3rd of the CR for text links

I also tried reports for different periods and see the same sort of results.

Overall, I would say only the best performing banners are in the same ballpark as text links.

If you are itnerested 343792 is the best performing banner for Hits4me.com

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Old 06-03-2001, 10:21 AM   #70
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I am getting somewhat frustrated with all the urgings for CJ to reconsider. Dont you folks think that they should think these things thru BRFORE making changes?

Surely you have not forgotten the "product links" fiasco, they cost many merchants hundreds, if not thousand of dollars. Then they say it was a big whoops. Now we have the latest "we really do not want to be in business" BS.

If CJ says next week we messed up and will eliminate the 30 cent minimum, what does that tell us? Many of you are under the impression this tells us that they listen. While this may have some merit, what it tells me is CJ is a company that gives very little thought to how it conducts its business. For the last couple of months I have been paying closer attention to the way CJ has handled its business. CJ has been and knows it has been a leader in the field. Unfortunately, rather than trying to improve on what was already a good thing, they have looked at the competition and realized they do not have to be as good as they were. They have taken the approach "we can lower our quality, raise our prices, and still just be a little better than the rest"

IMO if CJ does reverse this they will lose even more credibility. The only way for CJ to save face at this point would be to publicly announce the firing of the management members that have taken the approach mentioned above.

fool me once, shame on me. fool me twice and you are ******* .

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Old 06-03-2001, 10:39 AM   #71
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Dave,

That is a very good way to look at things.

Of course I am still hoping they do reverse their decision either way, credible or not :-)

But yes, they have to act like a leader if they're gonna be a leader.

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Old 06-03-2001, 10:52 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dave-AHFB:
I am getting somewhat frustrated with all the urgings for CJ to reconsider. Dont you folks think that they should think these things thru BRFORE making changes?

If CJ says next week we messed up and will eliminate the 30 cent minimum, what does that tell us? Many of you are under the impression this tells us that they listen. While this may have some merit, what it tells me is CJ is a company that gives very little thought to how it conducts its business. For the last couple of months I have been paying closer attention to the way CJ has handled its business. CJ has been and knows it has been a leader in the field. Unfortunately, rather than trying to improve on what was already a good thing, they have looked at the competition and realized they do not have to be as good as they were. They have taken the approach "we can lower our quality, raise our prices, and still just be a little better than the rest"

Dave
I totally agree with this... Infact I was wondering how CJ got to this level with the "rushed" decisions. They are capturing a pawn and leaving their king wide open for checkmate.

Sort of reminds me of chess players that don't think things through and basically have serious flaws in their logic.

I still can't believe they got rid of low CPA programs. Iwongear and their 25 cent CPA program was making about 12 cents per text link click. Also I looked at my banner stats for the program and quickly got rid of it. The banners conversion rate was around 5%.



[This message has been edited by Kaiosama (edited 06-03-2001).]
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Old 06-03-2001, 12:57 PM   #73
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What I don't get is what CJ stands to gain from these changes. They
surely must know that most CPA programs will leave CJ and either fold
or go elsewhere. Just my little programs spend $10,000 a month on
CJ. Someone like iWonGear and The Chocolate Page probably spend five
or ten times that, and CJ is basically saying goodbye to this
income.

Will increasing their fees for those who stay to 30% plus minimums
make up this income? I guess it must, but I find it hard to believe.


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Old 06-03-2001, 01:17 PM   #74
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Hi Folks

As expected, some merchants got angry at CJ because of the latest changes. Many post in this thread reflect that.

However, affiliates might look at some of the changes from entirely different angle than the "angry" merchants.

Actually there are some good news in the "Open Marketplace" for affiliates, such as:

- EPC will expose the "unproductive" merchants. Hence enable affiliates to make more informed decisions before signing up with a merchant.

- Merchants will be forced to improve their conversion rates. Possibly by making their sites sell, provide affiliates with better tools and support.

- Merchants might have to remove unproductive affiliates and concentrate their efforts on performing ones. As a result, affiliates will realize that affiliate programs aren't get-rich-quick models. To succeed as an affiliate, you need to take your participation in a program seriously and have to run your operation as business.

- The "Open Marketplace" also encourages affiliates and merchants to work together to achieve better EPC. And hopefully we are going to see better business relationship developing between affiliates and merchants (re-establish trust between affiliates and merchants).

Oh,.. forgot to mention that I hate the new terms; Advertisers & Publishers. Imho, these terms signal Cool-Cash-Quantity relationship. I prefer the good old terms Affiliates and Merchants, which are more "human" and signal more personal relationship among involved parties. Maybe CJ wish to reconsider this one http://geekvillage.com/ubb/wink.gif

All the best,

Harith



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Old 06-03-2001, 01:19 PM   #75
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Leadership and "competitive forces" is always an interesting issue. It can also be painfull and frustrating. Iv'e been their and share your pain.

Imagine this little senerio and then consider weather this is just "business" or a lack of leadership.

In the middle of the desert are 3 gas stations. You need to drive 200 miles in any direction to reach a "city". Each station is in a price war. One station lowers prices and the other 2 follow suit. When only two stations are left the price of a gallon of gas continues to drop. When only one gas station is left the prices are raised.

Examine the airline industry in the USA and you see something quite similar. Lousy service from most carriers because they either have a quasi monopoly on a given route and or demand far exceeds supply. The service has been in steady decline for years. Their shareholders are happy for the profit the cutbacks in service, seating density, and meals have provided but the flying public is "raging" and not happy campers.

Good luuck to all http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

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