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Old 08-19-2002, 07:34 PM   #31
Wiggum
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This isn't 1999 anymore. In case you haven't noticed, it's a buyers market - the networks have to give what the advertisers want and right now the advertisers want pop-ups.

Blaming the networks for their delivery methods is missing the point. A publisher owns the website, they own or lease the server it's hosted on and they PAY for the bandwidth it uses. NO ONE can deny their right to earn revenue for their service or the content they provide - END OF STORY.
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Old 08-19-2002, 07:48 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wiggum
This isn't 1999 anymore. In case you haven't noticed, it's a buyers market - the networks have to give what the advertisers want and right now the advertisers want pop-ups.

Blaming the networks for their delivery methods is missing the point. A publisher owns the website, they own or lease the server it's hosted on and they PAY for the bandwidth it uses. NO ONE can deny their right to earn revenue for their service or the content they provide - END OF STORY.
Advertisers generally do not know what they want. They buy whatever the ad network convinces them is best which is generally the most expensive, flashiest product.

From the publisher perspective, it takes work to make money which is the only real change from 1999. In 1999, you didn't need to do anything except slap a site together and sign a contract. After that, you could go relax on the beach and collect your check.

In 2002, you know have to do real work to monetize your site and sometimes this means that you face the harsh reality that making money involves work.
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Old 08-19-2002, 07:59 PM   #33
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Well as a heads up, Earthlink is running a popunder at Fastclick for their wireless, are all companies nowadays two faced or what? Banning by ip address sounds good to me.
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Old 08-19-2002, 08:07 PM   #34
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Having dealt with some of the largest advertisers and their agencies I can assure you that they absolutely DO know what they want. They want performance. They also know how much they want to spend. The advertiser dictates the buys - not the network.
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Old 08-19-2002, 08:22 PM   #35
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Quote:
Having dealt with some of the largest advertisers and their agencies I can assure you that they absolutely DO know what they want. They want performance. They also know how much they want to spend. The advertiser dictates the buys - not the network.
I agree totally with wiggum. Some of our clients come to us saying "we want this many in this time frame for this ammount... take it or leave it".

I think adkillers are not just on par with gator, but worse.
With gator you have a slim chance of making money... but with adkillers you have none what so ever. Some even go as far as getting rid of affiliate links and text ads.


THE ONLY WAY A VISITOR SHOULD BE ALOWED ABLE TO NOT RECEIVE ADS WHEN THEY VISIT IS TO PAY SOME SORT OF FEE TO USE THE SITE.
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Old 08-19-2002, 08:24 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wiggum
Having dealt with some of the largest advertisers and their agencies I can assure you that they absolutely DO know what they want. They want performance. They also know how much they want to spend. The advertiser dictates the buys - not the network.
If they know what they want then why are they so incompetent? If they actually want performance then they are being snookered by the ad networks since pops are the worst performers of any ad medium. If they actually wanted performance then they would go with text links but text links aren't flashy and pretty. If they want the maximum bang for their buck then they would tell the ad rep what they want. I've dealt with ad sales people and they do a really slick dog & pony show. It's not surprising the advertiser falls for the most expensive, wasteful type of advertising.

We've dealt with the ad networks since 1997 and so far none of them seem capable of figuring out the ads need to be relevant to the site. Here's a perfect example: I was on a site today looking for information on a particular type of domestic cat. The ad banner was for genital herpes and I don't know what the pop was, I closed it without even looking at it. The herpes banner had nothing to do with cats and the pop was wasted money since it was closed without even being looked at.
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Old 08-19-2002, 10:42 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lil_Red


If they know what they want then why are they so incompetent? If they actually want performance then they are being snookered by the ad networks since pops are the worst performers of any ad medium. If they actually wanted performance then they would go with text links but text links aren't flashy and pretty. If they want the maximum bang for their buck then they would tell the ad rep what they want. I've dealt with ad sales people and they do a really slick dog & pony show. It's not surprising the advertiser falls for the most expensive, wasteful type of advertising.
"Why are they so incompetent?" -- I sure hope you're not referring to all advertisers in that statement.

"If they actually wanted performance then they would go with text links but text links aren't flashy and pretty." -- Advertisers are usually looking for high volume, or at least we are, I can't name any ad network that can send 100,000's of visitors to a site daily from a text link.

"I've dealt with ad sales people and they do a really slick dog & pony show." --- Having dealt with many ad sales people, it all boils down to this: You have the money, they have the inventory, you ask for what you want, and they deliver.

"It's not surprising the advertiser falls for the most expensive, wasteful type of advertising." --- Again, you're categorizing all advertisers in this statement, why?
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Old 08-19-2002, 10:43 PM   #38
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Taken from Newsfactor.com

But Giga Information Group analyst Ken Smiley told the E-Commerce Times that the pop-up ad manager is a short-term differentiator at best. MSN is coming out with a similar product in its next version, Smiley noted, and it would not be difficult for AOL (NYSE: AOL) to follow suit.


Full Story: http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/19063.html

I hope this is not true!!!
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Old 08-20-2002, 12:14 AM   #39
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This is a critical issue for many all of us, let's try to remain balanced.


Robert's ideas are great. Companies will consider adding these features twice if you make it a customer support nightmare for them.


Quote:
Originally posted by Wiggum
NO ONE can deny their right to earn revenue for their service or the content they provide - END OF STORY.
You are correct. However it is arguable that blocking pop ups alone denies webmasters this inalienable right.

Earthlink has the legal right to do this at the moment. One can't really blame them for trying to do what's best for their business. We just have roll with the punches and return as many as we can.

Quote:
Originally posted by funtoon
Taken from Newsfactor.com

But Giga Information Group analyst Ken Smiley told the E-Commerce Times that the pop-up ad manager is a short-term differentiator at best. MSN is coming out with a similar product in its next version, Smiley noted, and it would not be difficult for AOL (NYSE: AOL) to follow suit.


Full Story: http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/19063.html

I hope this is not true!!!
Wow. If this becomes more confirmed... If you own a successful pop up-sponsored site or business that relies on pop up advertising... bail out before-hand. There's no way you can manage banning MSN & AOL.

The winds of change have picked up.

Quote:
Originally posted by joetec
It is pretty much the same thing as gator is doing just in a slightly differnt form. Companies like adsubtract and now earthlink are changing the publishers webpage without consent from the publisher.
I've never used a blocker (some pop ups are actually useful... and the the other 99% don't phase me) but as I understand this is not true with all pop up blockers. I went to Download.com and found that a lot of them just sit open and close down pop up windows the split second they pop. Again, this is just my understanding and I'm probably wrong.


Quote:
Originally posted by qball0213
Well as a heads up, Earthlink is running a popunder at Fastclick for their wireless, are all companies nowadays two faced or what?
Funny I hadn't thought of their own pop ups!


Though they'll probably start using pop up advertising to dig in the face of non-blocking ISPs.

Last edited by OC; 08-20-2002 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 08-20-2002, 12:29 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by darnell
But this goes hand and hand with the TV companies fight against Replay TV and ad skipping. If they can MAKE IT illegal to skip ads then we will be able to win a legal fight against ad blocking too.
It is ironic that the Electronic Frontier Foundation --supported earnestly by the geek community at large-- is fighting for Replay TV. Soon they will start to realize they are effectively fighting against a significant portion of their supporters.

It goes to show they don't really have a regard for the salaries of people that rely on pop-ups or TV ads or record sales (they're defenders of P2P networks that allow copyright-infringing file sharing). Every one deserves every thing for free w/ no regard for any one.




Edit: I just realized I replied to pretty much every post in the thread. :0 I'll try to curb my reply-to-everyone posts from now on. Sorry!

Last edited by OC; 08-20-2002 at 12:32 AM.
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Old 08-20-2002, 03:28 AM   #41
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I personally don't think a company like Earthlink will mind that they would not display any pop-ups anymore on their websites...

The money gained by customers going to them/not leaving them because of their pop-up blocker is far more than the money lost by that few not displayed pop-ups...
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Old 08-20-2002, 04:30 AM   #42
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Quote:
Just curious but does any body know the % of traffic earthlink has.
I believe it is 7% of US visitors.

Source: http://www.isp-planet.com/img/resear...isp_q22001.gif
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Old 08-20-2002, 04:57 AM   #43
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>> pops are the worst performers of any ad medium

Not true at all IMHO.

e.g. X10 cameras. Would you have even noticed them if they were text links or banners? No. But now everybody knows about them and many people own them.
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Old 08-20-2002, 07:14 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by OC

Robert's ideas are great. Companies will consider adding these features twice if you make it a customer support nightmare for them.
It's a silly idea. Why not just adapt and explore different revenue streams?
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Old 08-20-2002, 07:16 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by 00FUN
Again, you're categorizing all advertisers in this statement, why?
In over 4 years of dealing with advertisers and ad networks, I have rarely dealt with an advertiser who has ever had a clue what they want.
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