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Old 12-11-2003, 09:08 AM   #1
njpete
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Default Blocking every ad type let's fight back

Well the can of worms was opened with Popup Blockers, now there is a software program that is selling right now that blocks


1) Banner Ads
2) Rich Media Ads
3) Multimedia Ads
4) Paid Search Listings


I am not going to list the name of this product because i don't want to give them a plug. Now that people can block pops i think it is only natural that they start looking at other ads they can block.
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Old 12-11-2003, 10:08 AM   #2
Eriky
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You simple cannot stop this. And honestly, I don't care as long as microstoft does not start blocking all ads on the web in internet explorer. People that buy/download adblockers are not liking your ads anyway so it's useless to force them to look at ads on your site. They'll only be more annoyed.
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Old 12-11-2003, 10:11 AM   #3
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I could see some lawsuits springing up over this one and I hope it happens soon

Blocking pops is one thing but defacing a site's code to block banner ads and other ad types altogether is too far.

Dave
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Old 12-11-2003, 10:15 AM   #4
EMINEM79
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eriky
You simple cannot stop this. And honestly, I don't care as long as microstoft does not start blocking all ads on the web in internet explorer. People that buy/download adblockers are not liking your ads anyway so it's useless to force them to look at ads on your site. They'll only be more annoyed.
Not necessarily true theres software out there that blocks a person if they are using any blocker software. I havent had a look at it yet but Ive had several people tell me about it. Second why would you want anyone having a happier time at your site if they wouldnt even sustain looking at an ad or two so you could just simply pay the hosting fee.
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Old 12-11-2003, 10:16 AM   #5
Eriky
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That has been said before many times. Is it illegal to cover the ads in a newspaper you get for free at a train station?

I think you'll either have to accept it, fight it with special code (very hard to do), or go to a subscription model.
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Old 12-11-2003, 10:31 AM   #6
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I mean it is easy to say oh you should change your business model, but i know for me and i am sure alot of other sites out there it has taken many years to create the business model i have and after experimenting with other methods advertising and yes using pops is what works.

It's like why doesn't network tv drop commercials and go to a subscription model, i am sure they workshoped that and found what they are doing makes the most money.
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Old 12-11-2003, 10:32 AM   #7
Gracklor
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I find it ironic that the very people/companies who are pushing the popop/ad blockers use ads themselves. For example, I've seen popups and layer ads on MSN.com. What on earth are they going to do if IE starts blocking ads? A subscription model wouldn't work for sites like that. Either there are some ads (like layer ads) which simply can't be blocked, or some of these companies will end up shooting themselves in the foot.

Last edited by Gracklor; 12-11-2003 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 12-11-2003, 10:34 AM   #8
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It's even worse than the idea of popup blockers, it's like ripping down billboard advertisements on your way to rob the bank.

Quote:
I could see some lawsuits springing up over this one and I hope it happens soon.

Blocking pops is one thing but defacing a site's code to block banner ads and other ad types altogether is too far.
I agree, we don't want to be doing this for free. That's why we have advertisements. We put the money into domain names and hosting, and need something in return. And we're providing a service.

There was a company sued over their blocking of television ads, so I can imagine there'll be the same thing from a few hundred thousand webmasters.

Quote:
You simple cannot stop this. And honestly, I don't care as long as microstoft does not start blocking all ads on the web in internet explorer. People that buy/download adblockers are not liking your ads anyway so it's useless to force them to look at ads on your site. They'll only be more annoyed.
Now, the thing is: we want to break even--maybe even profit. This is like those businesses that display their ads on that one street in newyork. It's illegal to destroy those, and this is the same. It's online vandalism, and webmasters around the world are getting a nice big kick in the nuts from corperations.
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Old 12-11-2003, 02:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eriky
That has been said before many times. Is it illegal to cover the ads in a newspaper you get for free at a train station?
Perhaps not.... but I can't imagine it's legal for a company to take all the newspapers and cut out all the ads before anyone gets a chance to cover them?

Clearly some level of blocking will take place but like with everythign else, moderation is key. When people block affiliate links, banners, etc... that's stepping too far...
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Old 12-11-2003, 03:11 PM   #10
Eriky
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ted Sindzinski
Perhaps not.... but I can't imagine it's legal for a company to take all the newspapers and cut out all the ads before anyone gets a chance to cover them?

Clearly some level of blocking will take place but like with everythign else, moderation is key. When people block affiliate links, banners, etc... that's stepping too far...
I think you're right But I'm still not worried as long as it's not becoming a default tool like anti-virus software.. And yes popup blockers are becoming a default tool, but pop-ups are annoying, nobody can deny that.

edit: what if a company just sells the tool to cut the ads out of the free newspaper?

Last edited by Eriky; 12-11-2003 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 12-11-2003, 04:42 PM   #11
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Default TV analogy is best

The newspaper analogy is so hard to compare to the Internet, I think the TV analogy is better.

The thing about television shows is that the consumer/viewer has virtually no control over the mdedium and there really isn't any other revenue stream except for the ads. So if there was a system, that stopped the ads then the shows go under.

How many shows have been canceled because advertisers pulled their ads since they don't want to be associated with the show anymore and the show is then cancelled.

I think something that would be hard for a lot of sites is to show that the ads are their bread butter and without them they would be "cancelled", but even more importantly is that the sheer number of sites with the same topics almost provide ammunition for the other side, "Why can't you be like so-and-so.com"?

I would like to see sites get to the point where they are more like TV, in that, in order to even get to the content you have to watch the ad, kind of like TV commercials. The problem with this though is that unlike TV, not all websites would have to run ads where almost all TV shows do.
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Old 12-11-2003, 04:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
edit: what if a company just sells the tool to cut the ads out of the free newspaper?
It still isn't the same. These companies are not selling tools to block ads. You don't use the software each time to take out specific ads, it does it for you automatically, every time. It isn't a tool, its a service. I guarantee you if someone setup a service where they went and found free newspapers and cut the ads out for you, they wouldn't be ignored by the newspapers.

FYI - Microsoft is rumored to be building in pop-up blocking in their next version of IE.

This makes me wonder - what rights and expectations do website owners have? How is this good for the Internet if we basically say "We like the content, but don't like the price, so we'll just take it for nothing"? It's as if we are saying "A Mercedes is too expensive, so here is a packet that will help you steal one from the lot." And having everyone condone it. When you view a website, you are getting content in exchange for the ads displayed along with the content, just the same as if I were to get a Mercedes CLK in exchange for $90,000 or whatever they cost.

On the other hand, I can see a justification for pop-up blocking. I installed one (google toolbar) on my family's computer because I'd go look at it every week and they had 50 new spyware programs installed from pop-ups. It is also no fun when you type in a URL incorrectly and have to reset your computer.

But, blocking banners and text ads? Going too far.
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Old 12-11-2003, 05:45 PM   #13
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FYI - banner blockers have been around since long before pops even existed. I remember still the outrage when the first site put up banner ads and turned the internet into (horrors) a commercial medium. I think it was Wired.com that did it.

Quote:
I can see a justification for pop-up blocking ... But, blocking banners and text ads? Going too far.
And this is for you to decide? Universally? For everyone?

Or should the publisher be allowed to decide for themself what ads they want to display and what they want to do with viewers who refuse their ads?

Or should the viewer be allowed to decide what they want to allow on the computer that they paid for when they're using the internet service that they paid for?
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Old 12-11-2003, 06:16 PM   #14
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I don't think it is Spence that is univeral about it. I think
he is just voicing the concern of surfer joe/jane.
The visitors seem really turned off on popups because
many many webmasters abuse them. One popup
should be enough, but fifeteen will get your attention
real quick. A normal surfer does not like popups but
can stand one. But they will have a real problem with
spawning pops and thus webmaster abuse helps share
the blame for the peeps wanting them banned.

Surfers don't know what it costs to run a web site or
that it takes you a lot of time, effort, and that someone
has to pay the bills and eat. They are just surfing looking
for a good time, information, companionship, or something
specific to buy. They would not see the popup companies
as the bad guy should one block them from a site, they
would see the website as an unfriendly one... It depends
on your web site function and goals if this would be a
plus or not, but on my site it would be a negative.
I would not like the day where every other web site I
visited failed to load just because I used a certain isp.

Technology usually prevails and there are already innovative
ways to block popup software and direct them to optimized
advertising pages within your site constructed for beating
filters of many types. The pop up companies will come up with
a new and improved way of altering content and the webmasters
will come back with a patch, and so on, and so on...

I am trying to find other ways to make my web sites less
dependent on site advertising and at least balance it better.

Chazhound
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Old 12-11-2003, 06:18 PM   #15
Eriky
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Nice comments jnestor, you're so right (in my opinion). Sure, it *****, but we're not going to be able to stop it. Everybody has to decide for themselves what to do about it. I don't care as long as it's a small percentage of my visitors, I'm not going to worry about these things as long as it's not a big issue. And I tested these blockers like 2 years ago, they are still not widely used.

Last edited by Eriky; 12-11-2003 at 06:18 PM.
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