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Old 12-20-2005, 03:05 PM   #16
Pilatus
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Ok I have hypotitical question:

You operate a shop that sells music but does not play music in the shop itself.

But if custumors can listen thru headphones to an album if they request it, so they can determine if they want to buy it. Do you have to pay one of these music associations for the right to perform music like you would if you let music play in the whole shop? Or if you do it like this, you don't have to pay this sort of fee?

Last edited by Pilatus; 12-20-2005 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 12-20-2005, 03:30 PM   #17
Eriky
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Well let's keep this on topic. I think these are questions you should ask somewhere else and not on a webmasters forum
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Old 12-20-2005, 06:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eriky
I still didn't hear anyone about the current situation of licensing in the US.
The only thing I know about U.S. licensing is what I've read at this board, and by doing some online research elsewhere. I too would like to know what the current procedure is for licensing lyrics.

That reminds me, is this board shy about incoming links to specific posts? I wanted to blog about some of the things said from that thread I mentioned before.

There's a lot of good information in Darryl's posts, such as this one
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Old 12-20-2005, 06:33 PM   #19
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This continues to get more interesting, complicated and confusing.

Google recently added music search and purchase, which was covered in this thread http://www.geekvillage.com/forums/sh...threadid=29563

This new Google feature might bring more attention to lyrics sites - at least some people think so. This feature could also make it easier to find more lyrics sites, in case someone has a special interest in them, including trying to take them down.

Google will generally remove a site from the Google index if there is a complaint about a copyright violation.

pearLyrics had a software program that made it easier to add lyrics to iPods. As covered in an article earlier in this thread, Warner sent them a cease and desist letter. But Warner later apologized to the pearLyrics developer.

Part of that was related to if a person legally buys a song, do they or don't they then have the right to download the lyrics?

There are those who say posting lyrics online violates the rights of copyright holders. It is said that might depend upon if posting lyrics is fair use of copyrighted material.

There are some who are saying this whole thing centers around the music industry wanting to start selling lyrics online themselves in the future and they want to get rid of the sites presently doing it before they start selling themselves. But for now that is just speculation.

Here is an article that goes into more details about all of this growing controversy http://publications.mediapost.com/in...&art_aid=37617
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Old 12-20-2005, 07:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
I'm wondering if this will cover enough lyrics to stay out of trouble.
Warner isn't in that list, so prolly not.


And the shop sample I think you don't have to pay anything. If so you could try to stretch that over to your lyric site, put a buy link to an album containing the song on each lyric page.
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Old 12-21-2005, 10:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Larwee

There are those who say posting lyrics online violates the rights of copyright holders. It is said that might depend upon if posting lyrics is fair use of copyrighted material.

There are some who are saying this whole thing centers around the music industry wanting to start selling lyrics online themselves in the future and they want to get rid of the sites presently doing it before they start selling themselves. But for now that is just speculation.
The music industry isn't looking to sell lyrics. Lyrics generally come in the cd insert booklets with the albums. They are a perk of buying the album. With online downloading so easy and readily available, the labels are holding onto everything they can to make buying a cd attractive. Too many people can download the album, goto a lyrics site and grab the lyrics, and then grab a hi-res image of the album cover to print and they save $15. Lyrics sites are just a piece of the puzzle that makes piracy an easier solution.
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Old 12-22-2005, 12:04 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by thegauntlet
The music industry isn't looking to sell lyrics. Lyrics generally come in the cd insert booklets with the albums. They are a perk of buying the album. With online downloading so easy and readily available, the labels are holding onto everything they can to make buying a cd attractive. Too many people can download the album, goto a lyrics site and grab the lyrics, and then grab a hi-res image of the album cover to print and they save $15. Lyrics sites are just a piece of the puzzle that makes piracy an easier solution.
I had not thought of that. Good point.

However, I hope that's not the only reason the music industry wants to shut down lyric sites. They'd be stupid if their goal is to shut them down without replacing them with legitimate alternatives.
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Old 12-23-2005, 03:55 AM   #23
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IMHO, they'll be looking to shut down the big commercial operators who manage archives containing tens of thousands of lyrics for no purpose other than to profit from publishing these materials. It's hard to say for sure until the C&Ds start going out, but I'd wager that non-commercial sites will be safe, newsgroup archives will be safe and individual fansites will be safe. This isn't a legal position of mine, it's just a hunch as to where the MPA is likely to direct most of its attention.

With Google and other search tools readily available, consumers are still going to be able to find lyrics to their favorite songs within seconds even after the big commercial sites are taken down or made to repent, so it's not as though information will be made unavailable - it just won't be allowed to be commercialised without permission.


By the way, trialofmiles, we're not restrictive about inbound links at all. If you'd like to link to this thread and even to quote a few key sentences within your blog, feel free.
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Old 12-23-2005, 04:18 AM   #24
Eriky
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I just hope they will provide a way to pay instead of just forcing everybody off the net. Because it will be a matter of weeks before other sites start to pop out the ground. And I'm sure there will be countries that will not cooperate with the MPA or US law agencies so there will always be sites that can continue publishing lyrics.

The thing is you can pay licenses here in the Netherlands but they are extremely high. As far as I can understand it works like this: the local music maffia here (called "Stichting Musicopy") just keeps everything for themselves. They will pay out some money to small dutch labels though. As soon as a music publisher starts asking a site for money you can redirect the publisher to them and they will pay out. So only when they ask they will actually get a part of the money. They guarantee you will stay out of trouble though. I would let them sign a piece of paper stating this before I pay a single penny to them though.
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Old 01-07-2006, 03:53 AM   #25
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Hey, i have a question. I have started lyrics search engine at http://www.lyricslook.com. None of the lyrics are stored on my site. All i have is the links to other sites lyrics. Would these laws apply to my site?
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Old 01-07-2006, 04:03 AM   #26
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Tbonec2, as far as I know, you'd be safe in that situation. One of the sites within our network does the same; it serves as a directory of deep links to legitimate lyrics sources, such as "official" band sites.

In my opinion, that's the safest and most artist-friendly route for indie publishers and fansites to take. As such, as long as you're favoring links to official sites, record companies will probably offer you a debt of gratitude, rather than a C&D.
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Old 01-07-2006, 10:13 AM   #27
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So even if the links are not to the official artists websites then it shouldnt be a problem? Mine site is links to the very popular lyrics sites pages.

Last edited by theinternetking; 01-07-2006 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 01-07-2006, 10:30 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Czar
Tbonec2, as far as I know, you'd be safe in that situation. One of the sites within our network does the same; it serves as a directory of deep links to legitimate lyrics sources, such as "official" band sites.

In my opinion, that's the safest and most artist-friendly route for indie publishers and fansites to take. As such, as long as you're favoring links to official sites, record companies will probably offer you a debt of gratitude, rather than a C&D.
In 1998-2000 I battled, and lost with RIAA and BMI on a similiar issue. I run a music site. Labels and bands send me cd's and presskits with the hope that I put the bands on my site to promote them. I got into trouble because I wasn't paying royalties. My assumption was by only working with bands and labels that wanted to be on my site I'd avoid the licensing mess. So I began linking to the mp3's, and streaming audio on the labels or bands sites for the audio instead of hosting my own. BMI threatened myself and my ISP. My ISP turned my site off for copyright infringement. I hosted no audio at all and I linked with permission. BMI and RIAA's claim was anytime money is made from one of their artists, they get a cut. I tried to call their bluff and challenged them in court, but it became apparent I would lose in a pre-napster court. Remember...should you choose to battle these people, you are going up against a company that has lobbyists, unlimited funds, and has something to prove. Now I just pay my fee and hope they leave me alone.

Last edited by thegauntlet; 01-07-2006 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 01-12-2006, 07:04 AM   #29
Eriky
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Yeah.. I keep thinking about the maffia when I hear these stories. Any news on this front?

I just noticed that mxtabs.net has stopped with his tabs and redirect to a new site.
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Old 01-13-2006, 03:42 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eriky
Yeah.. I keep thinking about the maffia when I hear these stories. Any news on this front?

I just noticed that mxtabs.net has stopped with his tabs and redirect to a new site.
There hasn't been any news that I know of since December. Some tab sites have taken down their content, but as a precaution, not because they've been served a cease-and-desist. I haven't noticed any lyrics sites doing so.
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