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Old 04-27-2005, 10:02 PM   #1
Eric_eLyrics
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Angry Google kicked me out!

Yesterday google sent me an e-mail and told me my account was disabled because of invalid clicks. I sent an e-mail and asked for details, but they refused to give any explanations.
"Unfortunately, due to the proprietary nature of our algorithm, we cannot disclose any details about how our monitoring technology works or what specifics we found on your account."

It is just ridiculous. Because I was busy with some other stuff, I haven't spent too much time on the site maintenance last month. I never tried to inflate the impressions or clicks by any means. I did visit my own site once in a while to check whether the server is on. And I did accidentally click their ads twice in the past. But from what I learnt from previous posts, google shouldnt block my account for that.

I checked my site stats, and found an ip visited more than 90k pages in a single day. another ip from Israel visited more than 10k pages in a single day last month. Usually, those visits wont inflat the ad impressions because those softwares they use wont load the ads. However, is it possible that these days people use it to generate invalid clicks? especially on competitors' sites?

Last edited by Eric_eLyrics; 04-27-2005 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 04-27-2005, 10:12 PM   #2
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I think so, that's what I'm aware of....if someone visits your site and clicks a dozen times on adsense, they will ban you, won't they? It's really sad to hear that man, I don't understand why they don't give any details of who might generated them clicks, then you could compare ip address to your logs or something.
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Old 04-27-2005, 10:29 PM   #3
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I honestly don't understand why people stay with google and their adsense? I hear so much bad stuff about them with that banning ****. I wouldn't put any of my eggs in their basket.
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Old 04-27-2005, 10:53 PM   #4
Eric_eLyrics
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Quote:
Originally posted by Airkat
I honestly don't understand why people stay with google and their adsense? I hear so much bad stuff about them with that banning ****. I wouldn't put any of my eggs in their basket.
It is just that...I used adsense as my major ad provider and they seemed great. I got more from them than from the activex of adtegity. so sad... i have to look for a new network to fill up my rectangle and pop inventories.
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Old 04-27-2005, 10:56 PM   #5
Larwee

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Airkat, so often only one side of the story is told when it comes to the banning. Also, people are more likely to complain than they are to praise.

There are lots of publishers who have been with AdSense since the beginning and have never had any problems at all.

You might sometimes hear people say they are pleased with AdSense. However, if all of the people who are pleased would post why they are pleased with AdSense and their reasons, you will find that to be the vast majority of people and those who are banned to be an extremely small minority. It is just that a lot of them post when they are banned.

You said you didn't understand why people stay with Google and their AdSense. Well, there are several reasons.

First, and this is very important. Google is honest and has plenty of money. A publisher doesn't have to worry about if he or she is going to get paid.

Second, for many people AdSense pays very well. For some publishers it is their best source of income. For some people it even pays better than everything else they use combined.

Third, even though people who are banned might complain, Google is very helpful and willing to work with people.

Fourth, Google is always doing everything possible to make their program better. Better programs can bring better results for publishers.

There are other reasons, but those are good for a start. There actually are a great deal of people who wish everything they were involved with was as effective for them as Google AdSense.

Even though I am a very big Google AdSense fan I did raise a question about what people would need to be concerned about when they start their CPM program and if they would need to worry about being banned for viewing their own pages. I did that in this thread http://www.geekvillage.com/forums/sh...602#post153602

I also know of cases where people have noticed unusual things with their sites and contacted Google about it before being contacted by Google and made it clear they had nothing to do with it and didn't want any money that might have been generated by the improper activity. They worked things out with Google and didn't end up being banned. Google seems to like it when people take that extra step.

Last edited by Larwee; 04-27-2005 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:28 PM   #6
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Nice post Larwee. Your last point about being proactive is very true and they are easy to work with if you approach them. I was doing some testing on a script for tracking adsense clicks and needed to click the ads a handful of times to make sure everything was working and iron out some bugs. I emailed them a report when I was done with the ads I clicked on, their urls, my IP, the time of each click and a few other pieces of data. They replied back thanking me for letting them know and they deducted the revenue from my account and refunded the advertisers that day.

They said they had no problem with me testing the script like that and were happy that I emailed them about it. If I had not emailed them, chances are they would have kicked me out, and if I tried to explain my situation afterwords they probably wouldn't have cared much, it just sounds like making excuses at that point. So being proactive can go a long way with Google, as it does with any other reasonable company.
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Old 04-28-2005, 01:55 AM   #7
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larwee

I normally agree with your posts and they are thoughtful. However, from personal experience your points:


1/ that is the only real reason most publishers stay with them
3/ No they are not. You get canned responses, E-mails that don't even answer the question posed, hiding behind two particular phrase that no doubt their lawyers designed and therefore don't actually mean anything.


I would LOVE someone to take them to court and say you owe me money, you say there were invalid clicks and you aren't paying me. PROVE IT. Then let the court decide just how good their algorithim is and what it consists of because they would have to reveal that in court (at least in the UK). If they had owed me more money then you would have been reading about it in the newspapers by now.


your comments about the cpm "fraud" I also thought was well written but what other company do you work with that has people so afraid that they won't even look at their own website? What next, don't think about your website in case you imagine an advert and therefore an impression?
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Old 04-28-2005, 02:32 AM   #8
Larwee

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blogie, let me try to add a couple of things to what I said at first.

I said "Google is honest and has plenty of money. A publisher doesn't have to worry about if he or she is going to get paid".

You said "that is the only real reason most publishers stay with them."

I didn't really understand what you found wrong with that. What is wrong with knowing you are dealing with a company that is honest and has plenty of money and not needing to worry if they are going to pay you? Possibly I just didn't understand the point you were making.

That is a very important point and it is one point that people stay with them. Another is that a lot of people are very pleased with the amount of money they make with them.

I said "even though people who are banned might complain, Google is very helpful and willing to work with people".

You said "No they are not. You get canned responses, E-mails that don't even answer the question posed, hiding behind two particular phrase that no doubt their lawyers designed and therefore don't actually mean anything".

I probably didn't word that one the way I should have. I was talking about two different things in one sentence.

I was saying that people who are banned might complain. That was one thought.

The second thought about Google being helpful and willing to work with people wasn't about people who are banned. It was about people who aren't banned.

I was trying to say that people who are banned often complain. But many other people have found them to be helpful and willing to work with them.

Rivux gave an example of this in what he posted.

I have also seen other people who have mentioned they accidently clicked on their own ads, contacted Google about it, received a response from Google and everything worked out fine. Google thanked them for letting them know, and they weren't banned.

But, those messages were often canned responses as well. However, it would be difficult for Google to give a response that is personal to every person who contacted them.

However, I have sent them some questions that were very complicated and received canned responses that also contained a line or two about the specific unusual thing mentioned that wasn't covered by the normal canned responses.

Now, getting back to people who are banned, I can understand why some would want to know the exact reasons. I can also understand why Google won't tell.

If they did tell, word would get out and there would be some people who are less than honest who would try to find ways to get around the methods Google uses for detection and see how good of a job of cheating they could do.

Google says people shouldn't ever click on their own ads. Some people who were banned often say they did click on their ads but only a few times.

I have no way of knowing if Google is correct all of the time when they ban people. But based upon what some banned people have said in public it is safe to say that at least in some cases they are justified in banning some people.

Since this isn't a perfect world, I know that it is possible for Google to make mistakes at times. Has any person every been banned who wasn't involved in some way in activities Google said they shouldn't be? I really have no way of knowing since Google doesn't make the related details and information available to the public.

blogie, I'm glad that you read my posts and that you thinkg they are thoughtful. I am also glad to know that you normally agree with my posts. But, I don't think it would be possible to expect any person is going to agree with me 100% of the time.
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Old 04-28-2005, 08:17 AM   #9
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I'm a publisher that has been with Google a long time. I have only positive things to say about Google in my own experience.

They pay me well for the ads I put on my site.

They are helpful to me when I ask a question. (Yes, many canned copy/paste messages but as mentioned above the answer is in the copy)

They are honest and work to maintain a clean network of ads. I'm also a publisher who uses Adwords. So its important to me that my advertising money is protected from fraudulent clicks. I don't intend to pay for someone clicking around for the fun of it, spiders who are running amok, people who are deceitful.

They are innovative. They are genuis. THeir methods and their ability to provide targeted content ads is still amazing to me. I also love that they keep getting better...providing better channels, reporting, payment methods.

Mark me down for "Love Google". I'm sorry you haven't had a good experience. Perhaps you can contact them with your logs, showing them your confusion and letting them know you want to work with them to resolve this as you value their company.
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Old 04-28-2005, 08:35 AM   #10
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I would rather have google error on the side of the advertisers than the publishers. I am a adsense member, however I get maybe 1 check a year if that as I run about 200-400 impressions a day now. I am a adwords advertiser though. I have noticed an increasingly large amount of fraudulent clicks though. When I launched a new section of my site a few months ago, google claimed it sent me 138 clicks a day. My stats showed 102 to the landing page. Google did refund my money, but it is a hassle to prove myself almost daily to them. I admire googles proactive approach to kicking fraudulent publishers from the network. I suggest people be honest and not click ads on there own site either.
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Old 04-28-2005, 08:46 AM   #11
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I have seen so much abuse of google adsense in the past year or so with many signing up to fund a dedicated server. They offer free hosting and in return they place google ads on all the sites they host. Some require several google clicks before they are accepted for free hosting, (those requesting that have their threads removed). New paid hosts have adsense on their pages with a ton of hidden text to draw better keywords Inevitably they are always sprung in the end either by the google staff or from people reporting the fraudulent activity. I have no sympathy for that type.

However, there are a very tiny minority who lose their account and are totally bamboozled as to why. As Kathy suggested, try working with them to see if you can find out the what led them to believe you were at fault. Good luck!
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Old 04-28-2005, 10:30 AM   #12
blogie
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Larwee

the pressures of typing when you are in a hurry



Obviously there is nothing wrong with publishers staying with G because of the money. I feel (perhaps since my dealings with G) that there are equally important things in terms of what an agency offers. I personally now appreciate TRUE customer service which I get from fastclick, burst, casale, quigo etc. but if someone wants to stick with one company because fo the money then you are correct, that is their choice.

In terms of custoemr service I accept that there are always two sides to an arguement. I actually agree that G should be wary of click fraud and that it is the adwords advertisers who are paying for this. What I couldn't accept was the clear implication that I was guilty and it was up to me to prove I was innocent. I know G is not a court of law but I would have thought even in terms of simple decency then they could have tried to explain things better to me. G has got to appreciate that not all webmasters maintain raw logs, sophisiticated software to identify this, click monitoring software etc. I write my websites in notepad-quaint yes, gets the job done for me as most of my sites are text, content sites.

Has G became too big and lost sight of the fact that they need publishers and advertisers to be working together with them taking their slice in the middle. As I stated earlier just what kind of company has its independent contractors that scared of looking at their own website in case it gets them kicked off the programme. I may have been slightly sarcastic in my "thinking about their website" comments but is someone, somewhere seriously that worried-I bet there is.

Anyway, back to 99% agreement

Last edited by blogie; 04-28-2005 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 04-28-2005, 02:25 PM   #13
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I am half-expecting to see a new thread titled "Google kicked my dog!"
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Old 04-28-2005, 02:30 PM   #14
blogie
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No they didn't kick it but they believe that you might have. So they are taking the dog's lead and bowl from you in order to protect all four legged creatures and
to ensure that you don't even look at the dog in a menacing way again.

The full e-mail reads :

"Due to the proprietary nature of our esp contact with yours and indeed all dogs we are unable to tell you anything else other than of course you are guilty"

" As you know we take the interests of all four legged creatures seriously and we are taking this action....

PS For those with a humour bypass (and any google employee to happens to be reading) its a wee joke!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by blogie; 04-28-2005 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 04-28-2005, 03:18 PM   #15
Eric_eLyrics
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I send them two e-mails. But they wouldnt listen. All their replies are those "Standard machine generated" meaningless junks.


BTW, what is their policy regarding the payment. Will they forbid what I earned last month?

I might have to start ActiveX again.
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