Web Sites Toot Their Horns Amidst Advertising Chill - geek/talk: Web publishing business discussion

TheWebHead · 06-27-2000, 01:31 PM

More doom and gloom for us publishers...
http://public.wsj.com/news/personalE...838917715.html

suresk · 06-27-2000, 02:14 PM

I think many of us have been feeling the ad crunch for quite some time. CPM rates have fallen to almost nothing, and CPC banners get very few clickthrough's. I think Pay To Surf programs have accelerated the decline, but there are many other factors as well. So, what do we do about it? Well, there are two approaches:

1) Modify banner positioning/looks to grab more visitors. Its surprising how many sites just throw up a 468 x 60 banner on top and bottom and call it good. I'm sure we've all done this before, I have. However, just by tweaking the banner location, you can increase your CTR at least 100%. Surprisingly, 75% of the time a banner at the bottom of a page (near the end of content, not down in never-never land) outperforms a banner placed on the very top of a page. Little tweaks like this make me a few hundred dollars more a month, imagine what a small tweak on a major site would do. Another great idea is to integrate the banner with your content. Aaron's Signature site is an awesome example. (See: http://www.coolsigs.com/ ). Another problem with the 468 x 60 banner is the practice of using them for branding purposes. Its no secret that companies purposely design ads that will pull low CTR's, but will still get them recognized. Its a great strategy, but unfortunately, it hurts the publisher running the ad.

2) Go beyond 468 x 60 ads. If I were just using CPC/CPM banner ads, I'd only make $500 or so a month, not even a tenth of what I do now. The key is to make an ad look like it isn't an ad. Start an ezine, and use ads in your ezine. Use CPA programs that closely match your site - some offers I run get $20 CPM + and I know a lot of other sites have even better CPM's from CPA programs. Don't slap a banner up and wait for your visitor to click on it, bring the ads to them!

The Internet is a constantly changing market, and the increasing ineffectiveness is merely another change. If you know how to adapt to it, you'll survive. It isn't all gloom and doom http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Spencer Uresk
spencer@uresk.net
Come Check out my new bulletin boards!!

Ralph Slate · 06-28-2000, 04:24 AM

There's such an obsession over click-through rates that it's a joke. Everyone has it all ******* up -- when a banner is a CPM banner (which is supposed to be used for branding), the advertisers don't put their name on the banner and try to make it look like an error box so that people click on it. These banners get 10% CTR, but no one stays on their site because they realize it's a trick.

When a campaign is a CPC the advertisers design their banner with their site name very prominently displayed, but give no reason for you to click the banner. Then they cry when everyone remembers their name but no one has visited their site.

How important can CTR really be if advertisers abuse the system so much? Then stories like the ones above cry out "Oh! CTR is horrible -- 99.9% of banners go wasted". Which scares off potential advertisers.

How does Pepsi measure whether its TV or radio ads are effective? If someone hears the ad and then in the next 5 minutes buys a Pepsi? Doubtful. Then why are banner ads measured by if someone acts on them immediately by clicking on them? Wouldn't a better measure of their success be if the banners were designed to bring across a message, and if consumers became aware of that message, the banner would be a success? Admittedly harder and riskier to do, but certainly not as short-sighted as just looking at CTR.

Ralph

------------------
http://www.hockeydb.com

Ralph Slate · 06-28-2000, 04:27 AM

P.S. Nice censor on this board. It makes me look like I have a foul mouth. The word that was censored was what you do with a screwdriver -- or, if that doesn't make it through, a tool that is used to turn the pieces of metal into a wooden board. What a joke!

Ralph

------------------
http://www.hockeydb.com

mp3nskins · 06-28-2000, 08:37 AM

the only time the internet advertising will increase, is when there are more competitions... for example, does anyone ever see a "Fogdog.com" banner? I know I haven't.. because that place is making millions of dollar per month.... and if there are more site like fogdog, fogdog would have to advertise for more cusmtoers.

Guava · 06-28-2000, 08:47 AM

hehe,
Fogdog ran a campaign on either Advertising.com or AdFlight (don't remember which one but I saw it on my site).

Just had to post that.

------------------
Guava
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</A>Moron Mail (that's right Moron Mail)
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06-27-2000, 01:31 PM	#1
TheWebHead Member. Join Date: May 2000 Posts: 148	Web Sites Toot Their Horns Amidst Advertising Chill More doom and gloom for us publishers... http://public.wsj.com/news/personalE...838917715.html

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06-27-2000, 02:14 PM	#2
suresk Registered User Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Kaysville, UT Posts: 958	I think many of us have been feeling the ad crunch for quite some time. CPM rates have fallen to almost nothing, and CPC banners get very few clickthrough's. I think Pay To Surf programs have accelerated the decline, but there are many other factors as well. So, what do we do about it? Well, there are two approaches: 1) Modify banner positioning/looks to grab more visitors. Its surprising how many sites just throw up a 468 x 60 banner on top and bottom and call it good. I'm sure we've all done this before, I have. However, just by tweaking the banner location, you can increase your CTR at least 100%. Surprisingly, 75% of the time a banner at the bottom of a page (near the end of content, not down in never-never land) outperforms a banner placed on the very top of a page. Little tweaks like this make me a few hundred dollars more a month, imagine what a small tweak on a major site would do. Another great idea is to integrate the banner with your content. Aaron's Signature site is an awesome example. (See: http://www.coolsigs.com/ ). Another problem with the 468 x 60 banner is the practice of using them for branding purposes. Its no secret that companies purposely design ads that will pull low CTR's, but will still get them recognized. Its a great strategy, but unfortunately, it hurts the publisher running the ad. 2) Go beyond 468 x 60 ads. If I were just using CPC/CPM banner ads, I'd only make $500 or so a month, not even a tenth of what I do now. The key is to make an ad look like it isn't an ad. Start an ezine, and use ads in your ezine. Use CPA programs that closely match your site - some offers I run get $20 CPM + and I know a lot of other sites have even better CPM's from CPA programs. Don't slap a banner up and wait for your visitor to click on it, bring the ads to them! The Internet is a constantly changing market, and the increasing ineffectiveness is merely another change. If you know how to adapt to it, you'll survive. It isn't all gloom and doom http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif ------------------ Spencer Uresk spencer@uresk.net Come Check out my new bulletin boards!!

06-28-2000, 04:24 AM	#3
Ralph Slate Registered User Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Springfield, MA Posts: 334	There's such an obsession over click-through rates that it's a joke. Everyone has it all ******* up -- when a banner is a CPM banner (which is supposed to be used for branding), the advertisers don't put their name on the banner and try to make it look like an error box so that people click on it. These banners get 10% CTR, but no one stays on their site because they realize it's a trick. When a campaign is a CPC the advertisers design their banner with their site name very prominently displayed, but give no reason for you to click the banner. Then they cry when everyone remembers their name but no one has visited their site. How important can CTR really be if advertisers abuse the system so much? Then stories like the ones above cry out "Oh! CTR is horrible -- 99.9% of banners go wasted". Which scares off potential advertisers. How does Pepsi measure whether its TV or radio ads are effective? If someone hears the ad and then in the next 5 minutes buys a Pepsi? Doubtful. Then why are banner ads measured by if someone acts on them immediately by clicking on them? Wouldn't a better measure of their success be if the banners were designed to bring across a message, and if consumers became aware of that message, the banner would be a success? Admittedly harder and riskier to do, but certainly not as short-sighted as just looking at CTR. Ralph ------------------ http://www.hockeydb.com

06-28-2000, 04:27 AM	#4
Ralph Slate Registered User Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Springfield, MA Posts: 334	P.S. Nice censor on this board. It makes me look like I have a foul mouth. The word that was censored was what you do with a screwdriver -- or, if that doesn't make it through, a tool that is used to turn the pieces of metal into a wooden board. What a joke! Ralph ------------------ http://www.hockeydb.com

06-28-2000, 08:37 AM	#5
mp3nskins Member. Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Brooklyn, NY,United States Posts: 170	the only time the internet advertising will increase, is when there are more competitions... for example, does anyone ever see a "Fogdog.com" banner? I know I haven't.. because that place is making millions of dollar per month.... and if there are more site like fogdog, fogdog would have to advertise for more cusmtoers.

06-28-2000, 08:47 AM	#6
Guava Registered User Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 631	hehe, Fogdog ran a campaign on either Advertising.com or AdFlight (don't remember which one but I saw it on my site). Just had to post that. ------------------ Guava webmaster@guavamail.com GuavaMail Free E-Mail <A HREF="http://www.GuavaMail.com" TARGET=_blank> http://www.GuavaMail.com </A>Moron Mail (that's right Moron Mail) http://www.MoronMail.com Win a DVD Player on GEXplore.com, a website that rewards! http://www.GEXplore.com