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Old 08-23-2002, 01:18 AM   #76
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Here is the language I included on my page which is displayed when an ad-blocker is detected:

You may not view this webpage because our software has detected that you are using ad-blocking/ad-removal software.

This website's continued operation and success is dependent solely on advertising revenue, which helps us to cover the large costs associated with running an internet site of this magnitude. By blocking advertisements, you are not only depriving the operators of this site of valuable funds to continue to operate the site, but you are commiting copyright law violations by modifying copyrighted source code.

Users utilizing Earthlink as their internet service provider may have had such software installed and activated on their computer without their knowledge. If you are using Earthlink to connect to the internet, and have received this message, please contact Earthlink customer support at 800-719-4660 or email support@earthlink.com.

For those users deliberately using an ad-blocking program, please disable the program while you attempt to use our website. Once the program is disabled, you will be able to immediately begin enjoying the benefits this free resource provides.

If you feel that you have received this message in error, or you are not using ad-blocking software, please e-mail technical support and we'll attempt to help you resolve the problem.
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Old 08-23-2002, 12:02 PM   #77
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Default Popup Blockers

I've done some programming before for pluggins / hooks into IE and the easiest way for popup blockers to work is to wait for the IE call to open another window (in the call it passes the domain name of the window to be opened). What the blocker would do is check the domain name and match it with the domain name of the browser that just called it. If the two domain names match (they may use the 2 dot rule) then the popup window or _blank window is created. If the domain names do not match it's assumed to be a popup and suppressed.

It's a very simple program to do this (hence the mounds of popup blockers out there).

Some people on this thread mentioned they could detect popup blockers. The only way I've found to detect them was to assign a variable to the window.open in the popup and then immediately check for it's existance. Is there any other easier way?

Scott Ashman
http://www.adoutput.com/ - Triple your popup revenue! (beta)

Last edited by Sashman; 08-23-2002 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 08-23-2002, 01:36 PM   #78
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From the "Very I-n-t-e-r-s-t-i-n-g" file:

I learned today that SI ran a a number of popup campaigns for Earthlink a few months back. One of the campaigns was for discounted BlackBerry handhelds and service. We bought 6 Blackberrys (a $2000.00 sale) and we spend about $200.00/month on Earthlink access per month. All because of their popup ad.

So apparently with Earthlink it's "Do as I say, not as I do"

Here is a pro-popup article http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...114136193.html
It's all just ones and zeros.
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Old 08-23-2002, 10:13 PM   #79
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No, because nobody rips out ads in magainzes. However...

More and more people are buying Tivo and Replay TV devices and skipping the commercials. Their solution? Placing products in shows. (product placement).

While its harder to do with a website, it is possible. This isn't the point though.

I think that people are only really interested in blocking pop-ups, as opposed to ads. I dislike pop ups ( as a person, mostly because they are abused ), I support ads, or anything else that STAYS inside the window that I DESIGNATE for that website and its content/ads.

I would guess that maybe 5-15% of the Internet population will block pops, and i think it will be a lot less. I think that maybe 1% of the internet population will block ads, not significant at all.

If, (and that's a huge IF) the day comes that many people are blocking most of the ads, you WILL have to adapt, and either shut down, go subscription, or ask for donations.

It won't happen though. And take heart in this. Every day many many people are finally getting computers, and they won't be the type to be blocking ads, simply because they a) don't know how, b) don't know it can be done.

Originally posted by Wiggum

Adapt? So what happens when all ADs are blocked - further adaption?

If someone were systematically tearing out ads from magazines do you think that industry would simply "adapt" to the problem?
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Old 08-23-2002, 11:21 PM   #80
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Originally posted by ChrisK
Here is the language I included on my page which is displayed when an ad-blocker is detected:
Telling a new visitor that they are are basically a criminal ( "you are commiting copyright law violations by modifying copyrighted source code" ) is not something that is going to generate a "gee, I sure want to turn off my pop blocker and support this site" perspective. IMO. Personally, if I hit a message like that, I wouldn't bother with the site and would not return. It's not like there aren't plenty of other sites out there I can go to instead.

I don't really see a problem in informing a visitor of the harm their pop blocker can do to the continuing viability of a site, but insulting them/chewing them out for using one is not a great way to do it.
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Old 08-24-2002, 12:02 AM   #81
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You'll sound like the RIAA, and we know how popular they are right now.

Originally posted by Hiccups

Telling a new visitor that they are are basically a criminal ( "you are commiting copyright law violations by modifying copyrighted source code" )
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Old 08-24-2002, 06:51 AM   #82
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Originally posted by ChrisK
Here is the language I included on my page which is displayed when an ad-blocker is detected:
I have to agree with Hiccup, you page is rather heavyhanded and I probably would just move on. It's too long and I think you are misusing "copyright law".

Unfortunately, so many sites have abused pops that we are now seeing the backlash. Personally, we are doing fine with minimal use of pops - one per session on the least used area of our site.
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Old 08-26-2002, 07:44 AM   #83
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Originally posted by Steve_S
I suspect that those of you who run much largers forums and or membership sites would have different numbers/% Even opt-in list data could be usefull. We must have millions of these

Can you please share these with us?
My 35k big member database (entertainment/games) :

4252 AOL
549 MSN
121 Earthlink
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Old 08-26-2002, 06:01 PM   #84
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First time post here, but this topic is quite fascinating.

It looks like it will only be a matter of time before most ISP's start offering ad blocking to their customers. I mean, why wouldn't they? It's an added feature or incentive to their users and it saves bandwidth which the ISP will ultimately need to pay for.

So, I was thinking about this and wanted some opinions on this. What if, instead of fighting/complaining/arguing with the fact that there is software out there that stops popups, you join one of the affiliate programs from one of the many ad blockers out there and promoted that through your popups?

The way I see it, if somebody is fed up enough to lay down some cash to get rid of them, then they're going to get that software one way or another, if not from you, then from somebody else. So if you are able to make $10 per unit you sell, but you lose that one person, who cares? I mean, really... how long would it take you on the CPM rate you are being paid to generate $10 from just that one person? I'm guessing it would take a decade if you could get that person to your site each week. Math speaks volumes here. Besides, if the argument is that I can hit this one person with enough ads to make up that kind of money in just two years, do you really want to do that to a person who is willing to pay to get rid of ads? If that were the case, that person isn't going to stick around your site long enough for you to make that kind of money.

Does this make sense? Now I know this doesn't help when you have an ISP that all of a sudden gives it's 5 million users the ability to block popups. After all, you can't sell somebody what they already have (most of the time) and even if you could, they wouldn't see your popup that is trying to sell them an anti-popup application (boy, there's some irony, huh?) I guess you could get them through banners.

Anyway, what are your thoughts on this line of reasoning and do you see flaws in it? Eventually, popups as we know them will be eliminated or at least be able to be suppressed by users, as technology advances. But as always, advertisers will find new and innovating ways to reach that every important potential customer.
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Old 08-28-2002, 12:09 AM   #85
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AdGoblin, generally the programs are free. And if the ISP's offer them free also, then there isn't much incentive to try to make comission on a widely free product.
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Old 08-29-2002, 01:55 PM   #86
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A lawsuit isn't really going to do much, even if you win. You claim is that they are altering your code correct? Well if you win and they lose all they have to do is adjust how thier program works slightly. All that would have to be done is for them to make thier program find the JS code, and instead of taking it out of the page they can just mearly close the window as is pops. They know that the JS code is there and when that window pops it will be simple for them to close it. Therefore they will not be altering your code and there is nothing you can do.
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Old 08-29-2002, 02:16 PM   #87
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I'm not sure quite how the altering-my-code argument would hold up anyway, as you could argue that the popup blocker doesn't alter the code, it just renders the page in a particular way. The whole point of the web is that the browser makes some decisions about how pages are displayed.

After all, in IE you can turn of images, or turn of javascript, and you can get browsers for blind people or whatever that do all sorts of alterations to the way the page is displayed.

I think it is more fruitful to put pressure on surfers and ISPs by using and supporting products like [can't remember the name] which block users with ad blockers. This would be more effective and less expensive than the legal route.
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Old 08-29-2002, 08:13 PM   #88
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"Customize pages to suit your tastes. Take control of your web viewing, and don't be slave to some web-master's whims"

This quote is from the Proxomitron website (Adsubtract uses their code) http://www.spamblocked.com/proxomitron/ Apparently, Proxomitron considers a publishers right to earn revenue for their work "web-master whims".

Altering a site (by changing code or otherwise) is a copyright violation. Adding anti popup-blocking software or blocking users that are using them will not work as these programs proliferate. The only solution is to attack the source.

Send me a Private Message if you would like to join the class-action suit against these companies.
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Old 08-30-2002, 11:12 AM   #89
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While some pop up blockers may alter code, another way that some might work (and I think one does work exactly like this) is simply to look for new Internet Explorer / Netscape windows appearing, and send a ALT+F4 key stroke message to the window.

For this type of blocker, you might argue the effect is the same as altering the code, but they would probably argue they are simply automating something the user could manually do themselves.
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Old 08-30-2002, 01:19 PM   #90
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Wild Computer you are right there are two types of popup-blockers, one that strips the code out of your HTML page or (source page) you can say they alter you code, and some others use the technique that you just said, the monent the popup appears it closed them.
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