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Old 07-30-2005, 03:57 PM   #1
Larwee

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Question Still excited over Yahoo's AdSense Clone (YPN)

Back on March 7, 2005 I started a thread about Yahoo testing an AdSense clone while it was a rumor http://www.geekvillage.com/forums/sh...threadid=26855

On May 23, 2005 I started a thread that it was coming soon based upon what was said in an e-mail sent by Yahoo http://www.geekvillage.com/forums/sh...threadid=27641

That was the last e-mail I received from Yahoo about this. I guess soon is a matter of opinion. I'm not sure what Yahoo's opinion of soon is.

Actually when I thought about starting this thread I thought it had been longer than early March of this year when the rumor started, and then became a reality. It just seems so long ago.

At first I was real excited at the prospect of this AdSense clone from Yahoo. Now after waiting so long I'm not all that excited about it. Maybe I'll become very interested in it when it is finally available.

Right now there are indications that the wait might not be that much longer. But it still would be nice to know a date to expect it.

One reason I'm wanting YPN to become available is I'm expecting Google to do something very big with AdSense to try to upstage them the day Yahoo makes it available. Google likes to do things like that.

I'll continue to wait without much of a feeling of excited anticipation.

What about you? Are you tired of waiting? Are you excited over the thought of what Yahoo will offer? Have you lost interest? What are your feelings?
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Old 07-30-2005, 06:04 PM   #2
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Personally I think it will be bad for publishers, good for advertisers. Since both Adsense and Yahoo's clone use the auction system, ad rates will be driven down as advertisers will have more choices to buy keywords. If the advertiser thinks $1 CPC is too much, they can go to the competitor and possibly pay less. This will directly impact the publishers.
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Old 07-30-2005, 09:23 PM   #3
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Default Re: Still excited over Yahoo's AdSense Clone (YPN)

Quote:
Originally posted by Larwee
At first I was real excited at the prospect of this AdSense clone from Yahoo. Now after waiting so long I'm not all that excited about it. Maybe I'll become very interested in it when it is finally available.
Exactly. Now on any message board, when ever I see some one post that 'yahoo'll be starting soon' it get's a lot of negative replies. I now aways ask 'What's Yahoo's definition of soon?' They had every one excited, for a month or two, then we all gave up on waiting, from expectations geting crushed.
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Old 07-31-2005, 09:23 AM   #4
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I'm still giddy about the possibility of any truly credible AdSense competitor emerging in the near future, so yes, Yahoo's program still excites. At the same time, I can totally understand where some of the negative sentiment is coming from. Over-hyping in the entertainment industry is one thing, but starting to hype an online advertising program months in advance, even when the program in question doesn't seem to be breaking any new ground, is definitely a case of buzz overkill.

I do still hope that Yahoo can go where Kanoodle, FastClick, Searchfeed and Quigo failed to reach and, in doing so, encourage indie web publishers to further diversify their revenue streams.
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Old 07-31-2005, 02:26 PM   #5
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Some things are worth waiting for. ;-)

I think serious competition here will be a good thing, Yahoo have a lot of ad inventory.
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Old 07-31-2005, 03:04 PM   #6
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The latest rumor is that it will be introduced in August. This is a rumor based upon a couple of things which do little more than indicate that it may or may not be introduced in August.

One thing causing the rumor is because Yahoo Chief Executive Officer Terry Semel recently said YPN will be coming out very soon.

But that gets back to the same old problem. What does very soon mean? They have been saying very soon for a few months. Depending upon what is being talk about, some people mean just a few minutes when they say very soon. In other situations those same people might mean a few or even several months when they say very soon. At this point, "very soon" from Yahoo doesn't really have a particular meaning. An approximate date would give a much better idea.

The second thing adding to the rumor is because a guy named Will Johnson is going to be on the contextual advertising panel at Search Engine Strategies on August 8, 2005, in San Jose, California. Will Johnson is with Yahoo.

If nothing else, possibly Will Johnson will give some useful information about Yahoo Publisher Network. I hope he won't end up saying it is coming soon.
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Old 07-31-2005, 03:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by thegauntlet
Personally I think it will be bad for publishers, good for advertisers. Since both Adsense and Yahoo's clone use the auction system, ad rates will be driven down as advertisers will have more choices to buy keywords. If the advertiser thinks $1 CPC is too much, they can go to the competitor and possibly pay less. This will directly impact the publishers.
Outstanding thought which I concur with. Taking this side of the coin a few steps further:

1. I'm aware of many smart advertisers who do not intend to invest significant funds when the Y clone launches. A small amount of money so they can examine the Admin and see exactly how much (if any) Granular control and stats it may provide them.

2. Early Publisher adopters will be composed of a high number of cheaters and gamers of the system. No offence intended to anyone who can read this post Exactly how this issue is handled by Y and a few silent tests and then immediate notification to Y will play a role in the acceptence of the Y clone with advertisers.

3. Exactly what are legitimate Publisher exspectations with the Y clone? Do they/you exspect to earn more money? Will they sleep better at night knowing that they have diversified their revenue stream and no longer depend on a single source? I would love to hear all your Publisher reasons?

4. In closing, I'm a huge fan of competitive forces in a given segment of the marketplace but choose to temper my enthusiasim withn a strong jolt of reality when we are talking about the CPC space.


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Old 07-31-2005, 09:32 PM   #8
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>1. I'm aware of many smart advertisers who do not intend to invest significant funds when the Y clone launches.

The advertisers are already there. IMO, continued growth will happen as normal.

>2. Early Publisher adopters will be composed of a high number of cheaters and gamers of the system.
Maybe, they better have their fraud detection set up. They have been beta testing quite a while.
Smart publishers don't sign up with the best guess and roll with it indefinitely. Any publisher not willing to take the few minutes required to test a legitimately competitve program out, is selling themselves short.

>3. Exactly what are legitimate Publisher exspectations with the Y clone?
I believe thinking in terms of "clone" is wrong. Yes, Goog mostly pioneered the contextual ad space. But Goverture also pioneered the major PPC arena, and you don't hear people calling adwords the goto clone.

There are lots of companies with contextual programs. Yahoo may have a unique offering. I guess time will tell.

>Do they/you exspect to earn more money?
In some cases, absolutely. In the ppc realm, many keyword sets have more competition at overture or adwords. Some key sets will do better with Yahoo's ad inventory, conversely some won't do as well.
>Will they sleep better at night knowing that they have diversified their revenue stream and no longer depend on a single source?
Absolutely. If CJ were the only real aff game in town, wouldn't it bother you just a bit?
>I would love to hear all your Publisher reasons?
Actual customer service from a human being, knowledge of % of publisher share, and an attractive offering to promote the program as an affiliate come to mind. Of course these and other reasons may not come to fruition, but we can hope.

>4. In closing, I'm a huge fan of competitive forces in a given segment of the marketplace but choose to temper my enthusiasim withn a strong jolt of reality when we are talking about the CPC space.

I am looking at it like this. Most of all ppc ads are in overture and adwords. Right now we have only part of that inventory available in a contextual offering, through adsense. This will open up the rest of the majority of ppc ads to publishers on a contextual basis.

There may be some initial repercussions that aren't positive on the publisher side, but I think in the end more inventory is nothing but a good thing.
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Old 07-31-2005, 09:48 PM   #9
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My reasons for interest in the Yahoo! program gel very closely with Drastic's.

Ad rates aren't likely to fall at all, IMHO, since Yahoo and Google have been the only two first tier players in the PPC search market for years. You'd be hard pressed to find a single big-budget AdWords advertiser who doesn't already advertise through Overture and vice versa. The contextual program shouldn't dilute things, but will rather make Yahoo's offering more attractive to those dissatisfied by low transaction volume and low reach when marketing through Overture/YSMS.

Overture should have effective anti-fraud mechanisms in place by now. Not only has click fraud become one of the biggest public relations threats facing the ad-dependent company in recent years, but they invested heavily in anti-fraud technology when the first GoTo.com affiliate program debuted. Given, also, that Overture feeds results to more second and third-tier search players and portals than does Google, the Yahoo folks should have gained a thorough appreciation for fraud detection and elimination that - while undoubtedly imperfect - should at least be up there with Google's knowledge of the threat.

As a legitimate publisher , I'm not necessarily looking or expecting increased revenue from the Yahoo program, but I hope that effective returns will match those produced by AdSense. I'm more interested in diversifying our company's contextual supply stream, since none of the competing solutions we've demoed thus far have been able to consistently match the flexibility and returns produced by AdSense as yet.

I also share Drastic's desire for real, phone-based customer service when needed. I've run into some potentially disasterous problems with both AdSense and AdWords over the years (including one financial issue that almost lost my company a high four-figure sum), and Google's service just didn't respond to these client crises nearly as well as it should have. Overture, however, has always made its staff available for contact by phone, and has subsequently been well-equipped to deal with critical issues quickly.

I advertise with both services (and prefer Google as an advertiser) and I've been a prolific AdSense publisher since the program started, so I don't think my position is unfairly biased against AdSense. There just needs to be more competition in the marketplace and Yahoo is the one company best positioned to truly tackle this challenge.
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Old 08-01-2005, 11:23 AM   #10
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Drastic and Czar,

How refreshing to cut through the drama and noise with your well formulated thoughts. Thank you!
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Old 08-01-2005, 05:56 PM   #11
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I too am very excited to see what increased competition will mean for publishers. I would expect to see advertisers pay less as the overall supply of ad space goes up (theoretically, and probably not by much). On the other hand, I would expect publishers to see an increased percentage of the price advertisers pay to Google and Yahoo.

Both of these companies realize that smart publishers will do extensive testing to see which companies ads will make them the most money. If advertisers are paying $1/click for "widgets" on Google and Yahoo then the rational publisher will advertise with the company that pays them the greatest percentage of this $1.

Advertisers should expect to pay less per click, but not by much. The supply of ad space should not go up considerably because most people who will use Yahoo's program are already using Adsense, and the Yahoo program would just replace the Adsense ad in most cases. It may not be a perfectly zero-sum equation, but I would imagine it will be very close.

In the long-run I would expect revenue gains for publishers and possibly a slight decrease in cost for advertisers. My advice: publishers make more content-rich pages and be prepared to advertise more.

This is a little off-topic, but those invested in the stock market might want to consider what effect this could have on Yahoo and Google. I see it as Yahoo selling more ads with relatively little added costs, while Google loses market share in one of its key revenue streams. Just my $.02, and for full disclosure purposes I should mention that I currently have no stake in either stock.
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Old 08-01-2005, 08:26 PM   #12
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I’m looking forward to it as a publisher for pretty much just one reason.

Google scares the heck out of me.

I know a lot of webmasters are in the same boat, and are completely paranoid they will close their accounts, and they will be left out to dry with no income. I would use them more, but I just don’t have the stomach for it any more. SOOOOOOOOOOO many people have had their accounts closed due to “invalid clicks” but then google will provide NO OTHER INFORMATION what so ever about it.

I used to think all the people who got banned then came to places like here and were like “WAAAAAHHHHH google cancelled my account, I never did anything bad, I don’t get it” were all a bunch of liars.

That was till last month. One of my friends who I help with his sites, had been super paranoid since day one. He went so far as to when he was building or working on his sites he wouldn’t have his computer hooked up online, and would also replace the google banners with just a blank space, just in case he clicked on his own add on accident, and also NEVER visited his own page online, cause he was also afraid they would close an account even if they just saw the same IP too many times even without clicking.

So I can confirm he never once clicked on any of his ads. And as far as the clicks went, it was always pretty steady. Nothing too great around 30-40 clicks a day, CTR around 1%. There were no hidden links, no “please support this site by clicking.” Nothing. Everything in the TOS was followed 100%.

For 6 months everything was fine, then Beginning of June, get an email saying his account is being closed due to invalid clicks.

After that, no more, I will only give google ads till I hit the minimum payout every month, then they come off. Granted I’ll lose some money every month, but just the piece of mind that I don’t have to worry about being out a $1000 check, and losing my #1 source of income justifies it for me
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Old 08-02-2005, 10:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
After that, no more, I will only give google ads till I hit the minimum payout every month, then they come off. Granted I’ll lose some money every month, but just the piece of mind that I don’t have to worry about being out a $1000 check, and losing my #1 source of income justifies it for me
That IS funny. You are worried about being out 1000 dollars if your account is cancelled, so what you do is you CHOOSE to be out money, thereby losing it anyway? So rather than have google cancel you, you, in effect, cancel yourself.

(Ok, I DO understand what you are saying, but it's an odd choice of words and logic)

Sorta like "I love my wife madly, but I'm worred that someday she will divorce me, so I'm going to divorce her now, so I won't worry about it"
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Old 08-02-2005, 02:29 PM   #14
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Default YPN to launch tomorrow

http://news.com.com/Yahoo+to+launch+...3-5815551.html
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Old 08-02-2005, 02:41 PM   #15
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Default Re: YPN to launch tomorrow

Quote:
Originally posted by Drastic
http://news.com.com/Yahoo+to+launch+...3-5815551.html
I was just wondering why my CPC doubled this afternoon.
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