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Old 06-01-2001, 02:03 PM   #16
cashcash
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Umm, at least one poster on this thread seriously misread something.

It's not a 30 cent minimum per lead. It's a 30 cent TRANSACTION FEE. keyword being fee. So if they paying 25 cents a lead they'll have to pay an additional 30 cent transaction fee as opposed the the old agreement where they paid a 5 cent fee(.25 x 20%) Say goodbye to contest and freebie leads.

Effective July 1, 2001, the following pricing changes will be in effect for Commision Junction advertisers (please note all prices are in US dollars):

Commission Junction’s transaction fee is increasing from 20% to 30%
There will be a minimum transaction fee of $.30 per lead or sale.

This means that advertisers paying a commission of $1.00 or less per sale or lead will be charged a minimum transaction fee of $.30 regardless of the payout amount. Advertisers paying more than $1.00 per lead or sale will be charged the 30% transaction fee.
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Old 06-01-2001, 02:05 PM   #17
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Hell, what's going to start happening is affiliates/merchants are going to go to each other directly. Why should they have limits set by a 3rd party that just takes their money?

Interesting...
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Old 06-01-2001, 02:07 PM   #18
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Czar -- thanks for the great post. I just couldn't get my arms around the distinction, but that makes a lot of sense.

Wild Computer -- I'm not sure I agree with you. I think there's going to be one nasty shakeout as the Darwinism kicks in, but eventually some data has GOT to better than no data, right? Maybe not for everyone (for example, it would **** to be a **** "no one actually finds this form to fill it out so we never have to pay any commissions" merchant, for example) for most and, therefore, for market values of clicks.

Of course, that does nothing to soothe the initial chaos that's likely to come, but I'd rather sign-up with an advertiser that will tell me those conversion averages than one who won't. No one will ever be able to predict what my response will be (except, hopefully, for me) ... but I'll be able to predict better with this data.
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Old 06-01-2001, 02:15 PM   #19
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I would imagine that merchants with CPC strategies will move to Befree and Linkshare. This is not pleasant for publishers who use them as we may now have 25 different advertisers to work with and get paid by instead of one umbrella program. The beauty of CJ for some of us is the ability to mix all three types of ads and get paid one check, but I do understand and appreciate the positive changes here too.
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Old 06-01-2001, 02:21 PM   #20
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There is a possibility that CJ has basically shot themselves at the heart(a foot injury is not severe enough).

Why? As Sunnil said the majority of sub $1 CPA merchants will have major problems. For one thing iwongear will no longer be able to support their $.25 cpa program. It looked like one of the fastest growing CPA programs CJ ran for these two or so months.

Another major problem that has not been discussed is the chain reaction CJ may have started. We have all witnessed the downfall of CPM, now we must face the same possibility for CPC. All that we might be left with is true performance based programs.

If your site is not capable of selling anything tangible or intangible, you're dead.

[This message has been edited by Kaiosama (edited 06-01-2001).]
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Old 06-01-2001, 02:34 PM   #21
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When ClickTrade dumped CPC, I thought Clickxchange would be the answer, but it quickly turned into a crazy free-for-all as every silly site with $100 to spend became a merchant & it was impossible to find decent ones. I would say that many CJ merchants would move to Clickxchange, but I'm not sure if they've done anything to clean up their site.

Anyone got a view on this? I can't believe all these CJ merchants are just going to disappear completely (although they might in time). What's their best alternative?
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Old 06-01-2001, 02:36 PM   #22
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Brian I agree with you that some data is better than none, and I have argued in the past for some data, but I think you are missing my points:

1. I think some element of stability is absolutely essential for affiliate marketing to work. In my own case as an affiliate, whenever I have a choice of a CJ or non-CJ merchant, I frequently chose a non-CJ merchant simply because there is a better chance that the program will be around for longer.

2. geek/talk members (and to be fair other quality discussion board members) are way smarter than the average affiliate, even the average big affiliate. My own experience is that the average affiliate (which is overwhelming in terms of numbers and therefore traffic) doesn't look into programs in that much detail. That is - they will look into a the rating and just stick up the top rated banner.

3. The rating system (as I understand it) almost invites merchants to work their numbers. For example, in my own case I could significantly improve my CJ merchant rating simply by eliminating affiliates who show banners instead of text links.

4. I fail to see how (possibly) eliminating e-mail address collection type programs, and raising prices (which will eventually have a knock on effect on affiliate comissions), helps affiliates in anyway whatsoever.

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[This message has been edited by WildComputer (edited 06-01-2001).]
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Old 06-01-2001, 02:51 PM   #23
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Your PPC search engines will be well rewarded. Merchants will pile in on them Now!
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Old 06-01-2001, 03:02 PM   #24
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The beneficiary of this CJ move would seem to be ClickXchange.

The quality of offers at ClickXchange is poor but look for this to change. [The ClickXchange software works well.]

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Old 06-01-2001, 03:47 PM   #25
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I *hate* ClickXchange, it is a disorganized, hard to use and annoying system.

I would have to hope that FineClicks.com becomes the new CJ, it is obviously superior to ClickXchange, minus the lack of CPC based merchants.

Quote:
Originally posted by emailer:
The beneficiary of this CJ move would seem to be ClickXchange.

The quality of offers at ClickXchange is poor but look for this to change. [The ClickXchange software works well.]


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Old 06-01-2001, 04:00 PM   #26
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I'd like to put my comment here not on CJ actions - but on the cause.
I find it hard to belive that it is so hard to cach cheaters.
Using new technologies that are now avelable on the market such as MicroBot's will enable any one who work it efectivly to Drill down on information and find cheaters or pull statistical info for his merchents/affeliats.
this can provide data for performance of programs and more.

Think that you can know that a certin banner work well on a certin type of site, but on a diferant site - it will not do that good.
but think that you build the reserch data from Every thing. Not just from a bunch of Graphs. that EVERY thing was realy looked at and inserted to the equasion.
From a merchant point of View - i'd know who to approve, while from publisher's - i'd know what program will be best for me.

True - it is not simple to build such a system - but IMHO think that if any body want to sorvive in tomorow's market - he will have to have such a system. For himself to find cheaters as for his Merchents / affeliats - who will demand it.

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Old 06-01-2001, 04:03 PM   #27
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My thoughts:

This certainly is bad news - especially for entertainment sites.

For what it's worth I'm glad I recently started focusing on "per sale" programs and/or "higher value" topics.

My guess is most "general audience" / entertainment site's bottomline will be negatively affected by this.

I must admit that I have been expecting a further decrease in revenues per visitor for general audience sites for a while, though.

I've been making a few thousand a month from CPC and low-paying high-conversion merchants at CJ for my entertainment sites, and now most of these merchants will probably disappear. Maybe some of them will move to other affiliate networks.

I can still make money going with higher-paying low-conversion merchants (more targeted) after this is over - but in my experience, I will make less money with these PER visitor when I promote to a "general audience". (This is partly the reason why I've been "pessimistic" about the future for average CPM rates for entertainment sites)

Anyway, you've all already said what needs to be said on that issue.

Regarding the new changes with visible stats - I now clearly see Wildcomputer's point - and can't really make up my mind what to think of it - whether it's good or bad :-)

If these ratings turns out to be the most important factors for affiliates to choose programs - I think we'll now, as Wildcomputer said, see merchants kicking affiliates with low conversions - maybe even in PER SALE programs!

Especially the latter seems like an absurd situation :-)

(Let's say I'm able to generate $500 worth of sales a month for a certain program - but it turns out I'm not good at targeting the traffic - and seriously hurt their rating because I have tons of untargeted traffic. Now the situation could occur that the merchant decides to drop me BECAUSE IT'S PROFITABLE for them to do so! :-)

I also believe these new ratings will result in a serious increase of affiliates who turn to per sale programs which are rated high - much more competition for certain keywords at the PPC engines, and less money for those who are now making money that way.

There are probably many other implications that I haven't even thought about yet too.

Ah well. Back to work at those new sites of mine (which are NOT entertainment ;-)


[This message has been edited by Knut (edited 06-01-2001).]
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Old 06-01-2001, 04:13 PM   #28
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I think that the changes are great changes for everyone.

I cannot imagine why affiliates who depend on CPC traffic should receive money for those clicks. It was said that those kind of sites have poor conversion on sales and leads. Why would an advertiser want to pay per click for low quality traffic? I think that this is going to clean up a lot of the garbage on CJ and make it better for publishers and advertisers, which is a good thing. Combined with the EPC (earnings per click), I'll stay a CJ affiliate, and I am happy with the changes.



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Old 06-01-2001, 04:50 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by havaloc:
I think that the changes are great changes for everyone.

I cannot imagine why affiliates who depend on CPC traffic should receive money for those clicks. It was said that those kind of sites have poor conversion on sales and leads. Why would an advertiser want to pay per click for low quality traffic? I think that this is going to clean up a lot of the garbage on CJ and make it better for publishers and advertisers, which is a good thing. Combined with the EPC (earnings per click), I'll stay a CJ affiliate, and I am happy with the changes.
Most of the cpc merchants were casinos. Have you seen the rates they would otherwise have to pay elsewhere??? $8.88 PER CLICK for the top listing on Goto for keyword "gambling". $9.58 per click for the top listing keyword "casinos". Even if you didn't want the top listing, a casino merchant would still have to spend a couple dollars cpc just to get onto the first page.

Point is, those .04 cpc rates were a steal for the casino merchants on CJ.
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Old 06-01-2001, 04:51 PM   #30
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This is the begining of the after-shock: two merchants just changed their pay-per-lead commission to 0.01:;:
FunBets
MousePadsForFree.com

Now we know who is leaving ...
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