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Old 03-18-2005, 06:37 PM   #31
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You were suspected of UNFAIRLY trying to clean up the humor category, along with some sites OUTSIDE the humor category, targeting specific webmasters who are in competition with you and whom you held a grudge against.

In addition, you were "helping" the artists by searching the sites of the webmasters (HumorWeb members, no less!) for copyrighted content and then reporting this to the artists so they can be in turned sued.

But I don't think this forum is the place to discuss this. I suspect Czar and Steve don't want to have discussed another forum's problems on it.

Adam

Quote:
Originally posted by photocartoonist
I came back to forums like Humorweb to try to start this dialog again. I really want artists and webmasters to come together and work this out. But once again I am accused of lying and not being trustworthy. Why? Because I am an ODP editor who is trying to clean up the Humor category, and because I am suspected of helping artists.

Yes guilty on both charges.

Last edited by Synozeer; 03-18-2005 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 03-18-2005, 06:45 PM   #32
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ATTENTION "KAT" Lady ONLY PLEASE Read my post which I admit is hard to find but it is on this page. Iv'e offered an idea to mediate the two camps. See:


Quote:
Originally posted by Steve_S
Fantastic JT. Your mature outlook and willingness to comply and settle is outstanding

Why not use this case/issue as an opportunity to work with the creative community? What I mean is that after everything is signed and sealed so to say, I would hope <hint> that an artist like Kat <hint> and MANY other artists would entertain the idea of properly licensing some of their images/works for use on your site. Ideally free of charge with suitable written authorization, attribution, and a new window link where appropriate.

I always try and sit in the middle of the table with one side on my left and another side on my right. It's what I LOVE to do.

From an artists perspective, you become the "poster boy" for compliance and demonstrate the fact that your have embraced their Community and will help them combat "theft" with your willingness to properly licensing some of their works for free ( or low cost ) and you will tell other "criminals" not to steal stuff. Natch, the artist gets additional exsposure and in some cases traffic if they have a site.

1. Yep, Kat you are correct with respect to a lot of folks who steal content and how they think. They figure let's roll the dice, and at the worst all I will have to do is remove the image.

Sorry Charlie It's come to this and inflicting pain which is really unfortunet for folks. VERY unfortunet. Please don't blame me. Blame others Using my procedure you can inflict even more pain BUT they (the offending site) do get a single nice and polite letter to request that they remove the content with suitable evidence to support my case. Driven by a date and time and the ONLY satisfactory response/action is removal since Iv'e already provided evidence.

Yes, their are some slime lifes who will try this without real ownership/rights but in this case and only this case I fail to see any evidence to support it. Google and metacrawler Eric Decetis. Spend the time to see the book Amazon sells of his work along with agents site of his work. Then look at the image and the proof he will/or already has obviously provided JT's attorney to support the validity of his DMCA claim and thats the end of this tragic tale for our beloved JT who I do feel sorry for.

BTW, these artists started these kinds of suits in 2003 - see:

http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126915

Spend the time to read the DMCA and you will see it even has jail terms in certain cases, huge dollar amounts, huge fines for claiming ownership/rights of work that you don't own.

No need to believe me. Consult Google with respect to their SE policy:

http://www.google.com/dmca.html

To file a notice of infringement with us, you must provide a written communication (by fax or regular mail -- not by email, except by prior agreement) that sets forth the items specified below. Please note that you will be liable for damages (including costs and attorneys' fees) if you materially misrepresent that a product or activity is infringing your copyrights. Indeed, in a recent case (please see http://www.onlinepolicy.org/action/l...opg_v_diebold/ for more information), a company that sent a infringement notification seeking removal of online materials that were protected by the fair use doctrine was ordered to pay such costs and attorneys fees. The company agreed to pay over $100,000. Accordingly, if you are not sure whether material available online infringes your copyright, we suggest that you first contact an attorney.---END.

Good luck to all

<Edited>

Last edited by Steve_S; 03-18-2005 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 03-18-2005, 06:48 PM   #33
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Correct Adam and thanks. So could you and Kat please handle your "DMOZ" issues in another venue. In fairness to JT (who started this thread) and the primary focus of this thread.

Much thanks in advance

Last edited by Steve_S; 03-18-2005 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 03-18-2005, 08:52 PM   #34
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Thank you so much Steve.

You are so right, judges do not like either side abusing copyrights. This is clearly not the case with batcavenet.

May I suggest that you disclose who you bought the site from and provide the transfer contracts with the previous owner. They should have the copyrights stated in them.

Indemnification does not preclude all liability but does give you the option to sue who sold this site to you.

I may not be a lawyer but I have years and years fo experience as a professional artist, and I do have very smart lawyers who I have paid lots of money to advise me over the years - contract, releases, licensing, copyrights.

You are dealing with professionals here and I must say some of your comments only serve to inflame wounds that are already festering.
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Last edited by photocartoonist; 03-18-2005 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 03-18-2005, 08:54 PM   #35
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Well no I can't disclose who- the guy is from singapore so I doubt copyrights apply there anyway. Even if there was I know the guy and he is a good person and I would not sue him.

I do think your idea to bring artists and webmasters together is a good one. If you really want to know what I would want is a place where I could lease content or buy content in large quantities from multiple artists combined. I would not want to deal with small amounts where I would have to constantly keep buying a few cartoons to add to the site or graphics or whatever content. I am not aware of anything like this- I wanted to buy garfield comic for my site like 2 years ago but I didn't because it was extremely costly.

I'm not saying I had a right to display the cartoon and I'm going to be paying the price for it - you have every right to protect your copyright and I am pretty careful in general about copyrights - but if you have any cracks in your plan there is always someone looking to find them and sue you - where I would have fully complied with removing the cartoon if notified.

I hope to get this behind me by the end of next week but the law process seems to be moving slower than expected.

JDT

Last edited by batcavenet; 03-18-2005 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 03-18-2005, 10:53 PM   #36
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Quote:
I am debating trying to find licensed cartoons which is dang near impossible or cost prohibitive or just closing the site completely.
I'm a professional cartoonist myself. Before I started publishing my work on the web, my cartoons had appeared in over 20 books, a bunch of calendars, and many national magazines, including the National Enquirer, Sun, Saturday Evening Post, Woman's World, Medical Post, Focus on the Family, and many others - as well as hundreds of newspapers through King Features. They've also been on display at various art exhibits around the world.

I've managed to be fairly successful on the internet without trying to sue people for their last penny.

Anyone who likes my cartoons is free to use them on their site as long as they don't remove my homepage URL from the image and link to my site on their index page or below my cartoon:

http://www.gaspirtz.com/content




Quote:
Well unfortunately if I don't settle I feel it will be much worse. A jury and judge that have known to give outrageous fines and penaltys could really make my life hell - forcing me in bankruptcy or a long drawn out civil suit where I would have to wait maybe 2 years to get to court and incur fines much greater than what they want out of me. It ***** but that's the way our great system works
Personally I think it's highly unethical to try to sue someone for $200,000 over a little picture. I think it's ridiculous to hide behind copyright laws and pretend that this is a just, fair, appropriate or proportionate "punishment" for using a picture.

You might as well pretend the Taliban was "only enforcing the law" when they beheaded women for walking around in public without a burka. Hey, here's an idea: Let's send someone to the electric chair for eating a grape in a supermarket. Never mind that that type of punishment would be way over the top. We must "send a strong signal" to "protect" the retail industry from "criminals."

Sure, artist's rights should be protected to a certain extent, but trying to ruin a person financially over a silly little picture is far, far over the top in my opinion.

Last edited by Amok Entertainment; 03-19-2005 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 03-18-2005, 11:16 PM   #37
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Quote:

Anyone who likes my cartoons is free to use them on their site as long as they don't remove my homepage URL from the image and link to my site on their index page or below my cartoon:

http://www.gaspirtz.com/content
Can I have that in writing lol

is all that content legal down to every last picture

Thank you man - I appreciate it- I will try to resurrect my site!

JDT

Last edited by batcavenet; 03-18-2005 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 03-18-2005, 11:34 PM   #38
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< Steve pounds chest, smiles, and basks in the glory of the making of a deal that helps both parties. > You welcome </joke>

Oliver, much much much thanks. Great stuff and just to make sure you get your share of "ink" please view your image and text at:

http://www.geekvillage.com/geek_gall...o.php?photo=63

Lovely Kat! The diva of all things creative! Please make it work with JT Lots of issues to iron out but the basic olive branch is out and if a suitable "agency" could in fact be created then please go for it.



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Old 03-18-2005, 11:44 PM   #39
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Aw Steve, oh please go on...

Playing nice with my little Internet friends, well, my content is available for licensing but I cannot speak FOR my cooleagues.

There are a lot of angry artists out there and I can't get them to come to the table yet. They think I am foolish for even trying to talk to the webmasters.

But I will keep trying. For a matter of fact, I am a professional fool.
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Old 03-18-2005, 11:59 PM   #40
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Quote:
Can I have that in writing lol
Haha, sure, if you like you can send me an email with your fax number and I'll fax over a written permission.

Quote:
is all that content legal down to every last picture
Yes, I drew all those cartoons myself, and took the photos myself. I own the copyright to all the stuff, including the Flash animations and games.

Quote:
Thank you man - I appreciate it- I will try to resurrect my site!
No problem.



Quote:
Oliver, much much much thanks. Great stuff and just to make sure you get your share of "ink" please view your image and text at:

http://www.geekvillage.com/geek_gall...o.php?photo=63
Thanks for your nice comments, Steve! I'm glad you like them.

Last edited by Amok Entertainment; 03-19-2005 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 03-19-2005, 02:30 AM   #41
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You guys-n-gals are legends. I'm glad you could come to agreement and hope that this extends into productive relationship-building well into the future.

This has rekindled my interest in developing an IP repository of sorts, similar to what JDT has proposed. I took an idea very close to this to a venture capitalist back in 99, but after while conducting research and costings for the business plan, we found that the logistics weren't doable back then. Now, with micropayment suppliers around, subscription-style material purchases commonplace (ie comstock1700k.com) and increased interest from media agencies, artists and publishers alike, there could be a real market for this.

If iOnline or the GeekVillage community can bring something to the table in terms of technology that allows content creators and publishers to transact in a convenient 'supermarket of IP', perhaps we'll be able to simplify both players' processes and, in doing so, finally work towards eliminating the "us against them" attitude that is held by some players on both sides of the fence.
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Old 03-19-2005, 05:05 AM   #42
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First of all.. pardon my ignorance in these matters, I am very new to all things internet and I am just a bit perplexed about the entire situation. Forgive me if my post is too offtopic; feel free to delete it as you see fit.

I'm sure everyone is famliar with ebaumsworld.com. Would not a website like that be subject to the same type of litigation? I have a similar website and I have tried to read as much as I can about the situation. It seems the owner of ebaumsworld is quite despised and even vilified throughout certain circles. Alot of people have animosity towards him for posting material on his website that "isn't his" or "stolen".

There are pictures, flash files, videos, etc all over different websites that clearly have a copywrite notice on the file, can a webmaster hide behind "a user submitted this file"?

I posted a video on my site that was emailed to me. It was very well done spoof of starwars (I swear, it was better quality than anything you would see on MadTV or SNL) and I received alot of links pointing to the page. I assume the owner/creator of the video eventually got wind of this and went ahead and posted a rather heated comment on my site. Luckily, he registered for my site first so I had his email address. I contacted him, and as it turns out he was very nice about it, and we have set up a mutual agreement for him to provide me with content, and I send links to his website.

The vast majority (>95%) of the content on my website is sent to me by my users. The rest comes from emails I have received over the years, or downloaded from newgroups. I know that the people submitting this content cannot always (if ever) be the copywrite owner of the content. Alot of times I have seen the file posted on 5, 10, 20 other websites before I even post it. Is it enough to have a disclaimer, legal agreement and copywrite notice on my site?

Sorry if my post is beyond the scope of this thread. In my relatively short time as a webmaster, I have visted countless webmaster sites (such as geekvillage) but have rarely seen any info regarding copywrite violation and the DMCA.

@AMok ENtertainmet
Very generous offer, I am sure webmasters everywhere thank you kindly.

@batcavenet
Best wishes to you in this matter, it is quite discouraging to read about a situation like this.
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Old 03-19-2005, 07:41 AM   #43
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Hi hcteks and welcome to Geek/Talk.

Unfortunately, unless the "user submitted" content is also "user created" or "user owned", you have no legal right to display or distribute that material from a commercial website.

Posting funny pictures, video files and other material that has been doing the rounds via email is just asking for trouble. As you have experienced, some content creators are perfectly reasonable and will allow you to display this content on your site - as long as you receive permission in advance and offer any credit or payment as required by the artist. Others, as the topic of this thread highlight, are determined to control the distribution of their work more rigidly, and it's well within their rights to do so, as owners of that material.

I'm sorry to say this as I'm sure you've invested a great deal of effort into your website, but if 95% of its content really came from email forwards and submissions where ownership is unclear, you're primed and ready to find yourself in a similar situation to that faced by batcavenet presently.

Where possible, please try to determine the ownership of the material you currently carry. As you track down owners, contact them politely to determine how they'd like to be credited for the works. You may be able to keep these online without actually forking over much (if any) money as long as you handle the situation well and as long as the compromise presents actual value to the content creator. Of course, works that were sent to you by their creators may remain also.

Unfortunately, material for which you are unable to determine ownership should ideally be taken offline as leaving them in place could create more trouble than it's worth.

This might shape up to be a daunting project, but if you'd like to protect yourself legally, this level of filtering and verification must take place.

Hope this helps.
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Old 03-19-2005, 07:57 AM   #44
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Default Free website content

Hello,

I'd chip in here with a few of my flash animations - both cartoons and ecards created by our team of artists and animators.

I've created this free content page a few days back for webmasters on Humorweb.net , and am offering the same to anyone who is interested here.

http://www.ecardfunny.com/free-website-content/

It contains 24 flash pieces, and I'd continue to add more cartoons as and when possible. Just follow the linking instructions mentioned in the .ZIP file.


Thanks,

Vimal
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Old 03-19-2005, 08:01 AM   #45
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Welcome back to Geek/Talk, Vimal. Haven't seen you around these parts in way too long.

While we normally wouldn't allow self-promotional posts of this type, there's no doubt that your offer does contribute genuine value to this thread and to the thread starter, so I'm happy to keep it intact.

Thanks for the generous offer.


<edit>
Vimal, when you get a second, please visit your Member Control Panel and edit the email address you have on record here. The old email is throwing bouncebacks at present. Thanks.
</edit>
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