Webmaster Forum Rules | Posting Guide | Contact Us | Testimonials | Contributing Geek Program | Advertise on Geek/Talk
Welcome to the GeekTalk Webmaster Discussion Forums from GeekVillage.com

Click Here To Register. It's Free!

Go Back   geek/talk: Signature-free discourse for serious web publishers > YOUR REVENUE: Making Money On The Internet > Making Money with CPC and/or CPM Programs
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-14-2005, 11:35 AM   #1
Larwee

GeekGuide
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: St. Louis, Missouri USA
Posts: 3,015
Question Most likely to be kicked out of AdSense

I don't know of any scientific study done on this. Google knows the answer but I haven't seen them make the answer known. So the best I can do is to depend on my own observations.

Long before AdSense people were getting kicked out of other programs and/or not getting paid by them because of various violations.

Many times people would post on public forums about how bad the company was, and they would call the different companies all types of names related to the companies being dishonest.

Sometimes representatives from the companies would reply telling why the person wasn't getting paid and in many of those cases it turned out that the person making the complaint was the one who had done something they shouldn't have.

I am talking about respected companies who had only isolated problems with a few people. I'm not talking about less than honest companies who had massive problems with just about everyone.

With AdSense we only hear one side of the story. Google isn't going to make a public response with specifics related to anyone who is kicked out of AdSense. So with only one side of the story there are often many important details that we just aren't aware of.

One thing I have noticed is that a very large percentage of those who get kicked out of AdSense are forums. I'm NOT saying that no other types of sites get kicked out, because they do. I'm NOT saying that most forums get kicked out because I really don't know and there is no reason to believe that to be true.

I have just noticed far more operators of forums being kicked out than other segments. Possibly others have noticed this as well.

This could lead to various types of speculations as to why there would be a higher percentage of forums and also possibly lead to the assumption that forums are more likely to be kicked out of AdSense than others are.

Of course, there are all types of potential problems associated with forums. In some cases some of these problems lead to things happening that Google doesn't like to happen in their AdSense program.

Possibly some of you have also made this observation related to forums being kicked out of AdSense. Possibly you have made other observations.

I just thought I would post what I've noticed and see what some of you have to say about it.

Last edited by Larwee; 05-14-2005 at 02:59 PM.
Larwee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2005, 02:41 PM   #2
masm50
Registered User
 
masm50's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 822
Default

I had noticed the same thing larwee

However I came to a couple fo possibilities why more forums than other type of sites are kicked out of AdSense (or atleast post about it).

1) Many ad networks don't accept forums, so although they may have kicked them out too, they never accepted them in teh first place. This is one of the problem with AdSense allowing any site into AdSense of an owner, as long as their first site is OK.

2) Forum owners are, in my opinion, more likely know how to and be happy posting ion forums than just general webmasters, so they would probably be more likely to post a complaint than someone who had their first 2 page website kicked out for TOS violation.

3) As forums revolve around communities, it would be easier to get your members to 'click on this ad to support the site' than an average website that someone found on Google and visited once.

Just my 2p,

Tim
masm50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2005, 06:52 PM   #3
Pilatus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 164
Default

4) Forums have a core of poster/readers. When these people have fixed ips and click now and then out of genuine intrest...
Google's algo might figure it's the site owner trying to cheat..
Pilatus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2005, 08:49 PM   #4
e_d
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 197
Default

While were on the subject of people who get kicked out of google I have a related question. If you have multiple websites on your google adsense account and only 1 of the websites is invalid do they ask you to remove the adsense codes from that one website or do they just stop the adsense banners from being displayed there or do they cancel the entire account forcing you to change the banners on every website. This must be a pain for someone who owns a large number of websites if that is the case....

And couldn't google just hand out a warning, like tell us, "These are the violations you have on your website, fix them within 48 hours, if not, youre canceled"... that way you have a chance to fix something if youre honestly giving them legit traffic. It would just make more sense to give a grace period of when their account would be in "Possible suspension" Mode where the banners are not shown on the site and they give you time to fix whatever terms youre breaking or remove the banners from the site completley...
e_d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2005, 09:50 PM   #5
Larwee

GeekGuide
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: St. Louis, Missouri USA
Posts: 3,015
Default

e_d, when a person is kicked out they are no longer allowed to participate in the AdSense program. They have one account but they can have several sites with that account. Their AdSense account is closed so they aren't allowed to have it on any of their websites.

There might be some logic to that. Just assume a person really did it. The person was quilty of invalid accounts on one site. There would be no logic to allow that person to keep 30 other sites and be given the opportunity to try to cheat on the other sites as well.

So if it is just one of your sites it doesn't matter. Your AdSense account is closed no matter how many other sites you are using AdSense on.

Google does give warnings and has since the program started. But those are usually for minor things and people are given a second chance.

Here is a link to one thread about the warning letter being received by Geek/Talk members http://www.geekvillage.com/forums/sh...threadid=23958

They aren't going to be real specific in the warning letter in most cases. But they can be in some. For example if you are telling people to click on your ads they will be specific about that.

If they have detected some type of invalid clicks they will simply say there are invalid clicks but will not be specific about them.

Google of course won't give details on when they will send warnings and when they won't. But likely the warnings are when a person has clicked on his on ads just a few times and Google has noticed that, or a situation similar to that. Of course, I don't know that for sure, but that is a good possibility. However, Google really does issue warnings in some cases.
Larwee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2005, 09:52 PM   #6
Club
Registered User
 
Club's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 54
Default

Pilatus______
Many sites have repeated visitors and as long as they do not click ads out of normal patterns it is ok.

e_d______
"...And couldn't google just hand out a warning..." There would be more TOS violations because we would wait for the Google warnings.

5) (speculation) Copyright violations are very common in forums. Posters frequently copy and paste texts and images, inclusive hot link images, content that belongs to someone else. Google robots can identify the repetition of content from other sites and I assume that if it is excessive a human will take a look.

In my opinion ALL sites violate Adsense TOS. For example no one can control a visitor who, for whatever reason, clicks on 10 ads in less than a minute - or perform other not expected actions.

(more speculation) From a statistical point of view I think Google kick out a percentage of sites every month (week, or..(?)). The 0.001% (or 0.0001%, or..(?)) of sites with extreme TOS violations in number (or quality? .. or performance?) are kicked out: 1) To keep the system healthy, and 2) To send a message to other webmasters about complying with Adsense TOS. Therefore reducing fraud. (... again, only speculations...)

Last edited by Club; 05-14-2005 at 10:13 PM.
Club is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2005, 11:08 PM   #7
wsz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 614
Default

The first idea that comes to me is simply that forum traffic results in a poor CTR. They might not expicitly state their minimum expectations, and those expectations might change.

Also, forums have a high risk of content that violates an ad networks requirements. Naughty language and other hostile or just negative or unpopular/"controversial" statements. With which the advertsiers don't want to be associated. Would you want to pay for banners run next to a heated argument on some "hot-button" political/social/religious/emotional topic?

The copyright issue could be a factor, but I suspect that it is minor, and relatively difficult to detect with automated systems. The AdSense keyword bot is different from the regular GoogleBot for their main searh engine. So AdSense might not be able to compare your page with some other site in the main index.

My guess is that the main kick-out factor for forums is just plain old poor CTR.
wsz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2005, 11:18 PM   #8
Nintendo
I am a Contributing Geek. Are You?
 
Nintendo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Planet Zeekois
Posts: 1,289
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by larwee
If they have detected some type of invalid clicks they will simply say there are invalid clicks but will not be specific about them.
It looks like Google now gives warnings for invalid clicks, if you are extremely lucky....

Quote:
Originally posted by AdSense Robot
It has come to our attention that invalid clicks have been generated on
the ads on your web pages.

As a reminder, any method of generating invalid clicks is strictly
prohibited. Invalid clicks include but are not limited to any clicks
that are generated through the use of robots, automated clicking tools,
manual clicks by a publisher on the publisher's own web pages, or a
publisher encouraging others to click on his ads.

Publishers may not provide incentives of any kind to encourage or
require users to click on the ads, due to the potential for inflation
of advertiser costs. If we find your account to be in violation again,
action may be taken against your account and payment may be withheld.
Please be sure to review and remain in compliance with our Terms and
Conditions and program policies:
(No that wasn't sent to me!!) I've only seen a warning like this posted ONCE!
__________________
MidSummer
Nintendo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 03:26 AM   #9
Ted S
Registered User
 
Ted S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Irvine, California
Posts: 667
Default

The mere fact that many sites which are ejected from the AdSense are in one genre really doesn't mean that is the cause of their ejection (as they say in statistics, correlation is not causality). I can think of numerous forums, which have AdSense, get great volumes of traffic and are doing just fine... even sites with high CTR and eCPM rates. Google runs a profitable business, a very profitable business and to do that they have to take conversion rates extremely seriously. Google's business is making their advertisers happy and that may mean that cut publishers easily because it keeps their money makers happy. What technology google users and what their algo is for detecting fraud no one knows, what we do know is that they have something which is good... if sites were terminated for one person clicking ads a lot of times, half the sites would be banned already (everyone has had a user click more than a few ads). There is also a human element to the fraud team which probably makes up a major part of the discovery reviewing data and sites. All of this combines to allow Google make the decision it feels is necessary -- no matter what the cause, the end result is that they remain profitable and sites which work within their guidelines, and are proactive against abuse do well.
Ted S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 12:36 PM   #10
Pilatus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 164
Default

I had a click thru rate of 0.0% for 3 months with one of my sites.

I don't think google kicks people out for that?
Pilatus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 01:15 PM   #11
Steve_S
I am a Contributing Geek. Are You?
 
Steve_S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Posts: 5,224
Lightbulb

GEEK Ted S said "...the end result is that they remain profitable and sites which work within their guidelines, and are proactive against abuse do well."

1. I agree with Ted and a few of you.

L said: "I have just noticed far more operators of forums being kicked out than other segments. Possibly others have noticed this as well."

Respectfully, it's simply not true and never has been true. It's part of the "folklore" you read. Stuff like a lot of folks get banned when they reach $98 bucks due or near $1000 due so G bans them so they don't have to pay. Hoggie wash and all of this "folklore" drama is the very same stuff we saw in the early days of CPC.

2. Ted does raise a very interesting issue which is related to Forums and has not been properly documented in this thread. Here is one aspect of the issue for your consideration:

Forums/Communities can and often are breading grounds for member discontent, jealously, and inflicting harm, done by members to the Admin/Site owner. ALL authority figures must deal with this issue. This happens a lot but for obvious reasons you are unlikely to see one of our Members post about how his Forum members or Competition got him booted from AdSence. This stuff is very different than a normal site where the owner has zero interaction with her/his guests.

So, what can a Community Admin/Site owner and his entire Management team do to significantly reduce the chances that members or other Forum owners/Competition will strike back in an effort to get them booted from AdSence?

a. Don't fight, flame, denigrate, attack, slander, or argue with any of your members. Perform all your actions in a civil, respectfull, low key, and business like fashion.

b. Treat every member with respect and "talk" in a business like manner. Even if you have to ban them or tell them to chill via a warning/edit. Your entire team must follow your lead.

c. Reach out privately to your "core" group of well behaved and valuable members and enlist their help. Nurture this relationship to insure that peer pressure helps you and everyone else.

d. Don't fight, flame, denigrate, attack, slander, or argue with your Forums Competition. Ideally, try and help each other and become Net friends. At a minamum strive for a civil and respectfull relationship with your Competition. Even if you hate each other and find their methods so much different than your own, keep it civil and respectfull.

Summary: Many many Forum Communities should simply never run AdSence since they either lack the Admin skill set and or desire to do things as I have suggested. Please either unplug or sell your own adverts or use CPA.

</end_of_secrets>

HTH and good luck to all
Steve_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 01:43 PM   #12
Larwee

GeekGuide
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: St. Louis, Missouri USA
Posts: 3,015
Default

Steve_S, there is nothing like some good civil debate, so I'll be civil.

I never said I heard or I read that far more operators of forums are kicked out of AdSense than other segments. Also I didn't say it was true. I said
Quote:
I have just noticed far more operators of forums being kicked out than other segments. Possibly others have noticed this as well.
I also said
Quote:
I don't know of any scientific study done on this.
Plus I said
Quote:
So the best I can do is to depend on my own observations.
In addition I said
Quote:
Possibly you have made other observations.
This makes it clear that there was a chance that other people had personal observations that were different from mine. Which is still another indication that I wasn't saying that what I stated was true, but was simply what I had observed.

masm50 posted on having made the same observation that I had. Others may or may not have had the same personal observations.

I never said it was true and I made it clear that it wasn't based on any scientific study and that it was what I had personally seen.

It may or may not be true. But what I said I had observed is true. I didn't observe one thing and then make a false statement about what I had observed.

Probably a minor point that is part of civil debate. But I just wanted to set the record straight since I had gone out of my way in my original post to make it clear that I wasn't saying it was a true statement and was just what I had seen.

I possibly should have said that I've noticed forum operators are the ones who have complained the most in forums about being kicked out of AdSense.

Here again, this is what I have noticed. It may or may not be true and isn't a scientific study. It is just what I have personally seen and I want to be as clear as possible about that.

I have posted previously in Geek/Talk that there is an important difference between fact and opinions. I try to always keep that in mind. That is why in my original post I went out of my way to say that what I was saying wasn't based on any scientific study and it was only based upon my own personal observations. That was so people would know that I wasn't stating something as being true. I wasn't stating it as a fact.

I just wanted to make that clear since I got the impression, based on your statement that you felt I was stating something as being true when I actually hadn't even come close to saying that and went way out of my way to make it clear that it was simply my personal observation.

Last edited by Larwee; 05-15-2005 at 06:45 PM.
Larwee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 02:48 PM   #13
Steve_S
I am a Contributing Geek. Are You?
 
Steve_S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Posts: 5,224
Default

ah......................... the finer points of semantics.

I see after reading your post again. Point taken and my appolagies for the confusion.

Summary: My observations are far different from yours and should not be taken as "fact" but only my opinion based on the rare opportunity to spend time in unammed Networks Admins and confidential conversations with Networks during the last 6 years

I generally place very little credence in what is said by folks who got booted from AdSence, although in certain cases I might feel their pain a tad.

On the other hand, I place far more credence on what each side on a given no pay issue says via a formal and compliant complaint on GV as per:

http://www.geekvillage.com/posting_g...r_bb.htm#item5

Some of THOSE make for some interesting reading but unfortunetly G has chosen not to visibly participate although they do "lurk"

Happy trails to all
Steve_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 03:30 PM   #14
Larwee

GeekGuide
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: St. Louis, Missouri USA
Posts: 3,015
Default

Steve_S, no problem.

I neglected to mention that the tips you made for forum operators are absolutely great. But with the years of experience you had running Geek/Talk when you were the owner you should obviously have some fantastic tips. Some forum owners are asking for trouble and they often receive it.

Last edited by Larwee; 05-15-2005 at 08:57 PM.
Larwee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adsense Arbitrage Fraud Vahid Making Money with CPC and/or CPM Programs 1 03-02-2007 08:33 PM
How to avoid being kicked out of AdSense Larwee Making Money with CPC and/or CPM Programs 29 11-13-2006 11:15 PM
How to avoid being kicked out of AdSense Larwee Archives of the best threads 28 08-19-2006 04:24 PM
What is the best AdSense clone? Larwee Making Money with CPC and/or CPM Programs 0 07-30-2005 09:40 PM
The future of AdSense Larwee Making Money with CPC and/or CPM Programs 9 12-29-2004 01:49 PM

Please support our advertisers. They ensure our survival.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:35 AM.


GeekVillage.com is copyright © 1998-2015 Curiosity Cave - Science gifts for clever kids. All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.