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Old 08-20-2002, 07:56 AM   #46
lmergen
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lil_Red
It's a silly idea. Why not just adapt and explore different revenue streams?
I think that's exactly the point where we should head to right now... I mean, we can install anti-ad-blocker software and such, but I think we should rather see it as a sign.

If people really think pop-ups are THAT annoying, advertising using that medium can't be good for your image in the long run.

One pop per session (as done here on GV) is really agreeable.

But I think publishers need to think of their own innovative advertising methods now...
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Old 08-20-2002, 09:52 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lil_Red


In over 4 years of dealing with advertisers and ad networks, I have rarely dealt with an advertiser who has ever had a clue what they want.
Ouch!
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Old 08-20-2002, 10:55 AM   #48
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FYI: the pop-block sofware being used by Earthlink (GuardIE) advertises the following:

"GuardIE blocks script-based drop-down ads, Macromedia Flash Ads, and many others and, most important, is continually being upgraded to address more and more of these annoying advertising tricks - if we don't block it now, we probably will very soon!"

The Earthlink Pop Up Blocker download page advertises "The free final version will become available for download later this year and will include extra features"

Anyone who thinks this will end with Pop-ups is kidding themselves.
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Old 08-20-2002, 10:57 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wiggum
Anyone who thinks this will end with Pop-ups is kidding themselves.
It looks like Earthlink's share has dropped down to 3.3% in 2002 according to http://isp-planet.com/research/rankings/usa.html

If AOL & MSN jump on board, at least 26% of American users will have access to pop up blocking.


Quote:
Originally posted by Lil_Red
It's a silly idea. Why not just adapt and explore different revenue streams?
I wouldn't call it silly. It was good idea... just not realistic.


I think you could find my overall stance is adaptation. It's somewhere in there.... I just don't want to read those horrendously long 1:30AM posts again.

Last edited by OC; 08-20-2002 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 08-20-2002, 11:20 AM   #50
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Just my humble opinion as small webmaster...I make nice money with pop-unders but:

If all browsers and ISPs would start to block popups/unders now it would be GREAT

Reason:
That I get only .40 CPM and many even block my 468:60 banners is not the fault of some dotcom crashes...it is the fault of using advertising not as part of the experience like in TV or radio...they use it as an insult, to make money any way and all have to pay for it now. Most market researcher recommend to invest ad budget better in million $ TV ad campaigns because studies show that branding becomes impossible when after a well designed web ad people are insulted with "HIT THE TARGET" or "YOU HAVE WON" the next moment...pop-ups not even to mention...

To formulate it extremely radical (sorry for that)

Insulting advertising is like a form of disease...and that those of us who care about the future of the Internet may perhaps earn a $ or two in a distant future, the infected sites and ad companies must perhaps die first....at the end your sites, also mine...are all replaceable...if we stop them, others will even overtake without to earn anything...

"They have no right to change my code" ...nonsense... actually it is an intrusion in other peoples computer system to open a new browser window...it is not the way the code was intended to be used...it is a form of hacking...the user send a http request for !ONE! page ...if you deliver 3,4 or 5 it costs some online time/bandwidth and is a form of stealing, like ad blockers are....

Just my humble opinion

Last edited by JustMe; 08-20-2002 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 08-20-2002, 12:57 PM   #51
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For sites who live from PopUps and banners, if they will be blocked, it's better to loose the visitors - Even if they are 7% or more - but not to loose server cost in the form of bandwidth.
Sorry but if you are running your website for money that's the simple fact. Number of visitors will drop but so is server cost and to block a IP range is much much more simple then detecting users on a personal basis.


For the people here who run ad and PopUp networks -
Do yourself and your publishers a favor and help them fight the ad blockers. Help developing anti blockers scripts, help keeping track of "to ban" IP ranges and such.
the same way that you let a publisher select a diferant code that can generate a popup or not and such, Enable publishers to select banner and popup code with built in Anti Blocking code.
Make a diferance, Show you care.
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Old 08-20-2002, 01:05 PM   #52
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Hi JustMe, and welcome on board

I certainly agree very much with your post. The problem with nowaday's advertisements is that they generally do not interrest the visitors. To bring up an example : my visitors are averaging 12-18 years of age, about 5% not falling under that age group... I have told advertisement companies that a million times, and yet they keep advertising for VISA, and after that, they complain that I have such a low CTR. Then they start using pop-ups on my site ("I don't even make break-even with your site, so it is the banner ads WITH the pop-ups or no ads at all") , and scare the visitors away even more, driving them angry.

But the problem again is for sites with less than, say, 5 million pageviews / month, it is almost impossible to sell only ads that interrest the visitors (e.g. running your own sales team) .

But I really think that is the only option to do advertisements without "annoying" the visitor...
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Old 08-20-2002, 02:32 PM   #53
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Respectfully, it would be informative to see more "Merchant" on topic comments in this thread. How about it?

So far, Robert has spoken and thanks. We have dozens of you that visit this Forum every week.

Thank you
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Old 08-20-2002, 02:42 PM   #54
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Blocking the blockers is really only a temporary step. Someday the blocking will be the default option in all the browsers and there will be more blockers than non-blockers. At this point we move to the next logical step in internet ad delivery - full page interstitials. I'm pretty much convinced it will come about sooner or later.

Actually I wouldn't so much mind it if the pops were replaced with full pages. The pops are abused by typo squaters. There's not really a good way to abuse the interstitials. More money for the legit content sites and less for the low lifes. No annoying collection of windows to close for the surfer. Should be fairly easy to ensure that they're not being blocked. Everyone "wins" though the surfer now has to sit through commercials just like on tv.
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Old 08-20-2002, 02:42 PM   #55
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@Scuba:

Sounds logic...but for really busy sites not true...You get 10Mbit unmetered connections for 400$, that are 3164 GByte/Month...a 100KB page costs then 0,001 cent...using an ad blocker software costs CPU time...and from a rough calculation *sigh* ...the CPU time costs more...so not blocking leechers is cheaper...

@lmergen:

Thanks,
From a rough calculation I can finance my site using page compression and other stuff even when I reject all ads I don't like, with 60-90% defaults...problem is that there are not enough ad serving companies that I find acceptable and my site is pretty international...and not all accept my site of course... With 50 million pageviews for my tech site I could sell all my adspace myself and earn money for several employees...marketing people from different big companies try already now to have a good relationship to my site...they just prefer to "pay" in hardware...from my calculations they pay often 10$+CPM this way...just to avoid banners...which shows how bad their reputation really is...but it shows that if you use concepts that are interesting for big companies they really pay and you can avoid the big black hole of ruining your adspace for ridiculous low amounts of money....

What would be needed that would be a quality certificate that advertisers and websites use. Websites with that sign may only show approved banners and no popups...ad companies sell adspace for such sites only for 300% money they normally would take...

@Steve_S:

True...
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Old 08-20-2002, 03:10 PM   #56
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Guys,

How about the following statement that has been vented by some in the past?

Only people who do not interact with online ads will be tempted to install and use pop-blockers. Since these people are not valuable to advertisers, advertising results will increase since ads are being shown to a smaller, yet more responsive group of internet users, ultimately raising CPM and maybe even bringing in more than just a compensation for the lost impressions.

Sidenote: I couldn't make up whether *all* Earthlink members will automatically block pops, so I'm not sure whether this idea is applicable on this situation.

Have a great day,

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Old 08-20-2002, 03:45 PM   #57
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But after thinking about it little more,

The ad market is allready down and after last years popup hellhols it look like blockers will be the next thing.
Maybe some ISP's that also have an ad serving company will not market them, but I am sure that most ISP's around the world don't have this type of properties at there posession and they can only benefit from reducing the bandwidth, even if just in a bit...

My suggestion will be to invest in Pay per View sites, micro payment ideas and such, because it seem that much sooner then we antisipated there will not be much other choice to make money in the webmaster buisness
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Old 08-20-2002, 08:39 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by 00FUN

Quote:
Originally posted by Lil_Red
In over 4 years of dealing with advertisers and ad networks, I have rarely dealt with an advertiser who has ever had a clue what they want.
Ouch!
If you look at the majority of advertisers on networks like Max World Wide, many of them are not Internet oriented companies, so it is probably true to say many of them do not understand the Internet, and hence they probably don't know what they want.
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Old 08-21-2002, 12:32 PM   #59
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When pop killers execute, do they try to load the window first and then kill the pop? or do they look for the presence of JS code and then kill them.

Also, does the pop get killed within seconds or does is display first then close it down?


We are looking at several ways to avoid pop-killers killing our clients ads and depending on the way how this software works will dictate which ideas we try to implement.
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Old 08-21-2002, 01:39 PM   #60
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I *think* most look for the javascript code that loads the pops and disable / delete this from the page, before the pop loads.
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