Earthlink BLOCKS Pops

Steve_S · 08-19-2002, 03:40 AM

Iv'e had better days <sigh>

Exstracto: "The pop-up blocker software, which eliminates all pop-up and pop-under ads, is expected to help EarthLink differentiate itself as it tries to gain market share from market leader AOL. "

The full story:

http://news.com.com/2100-1023-954279.html?tag=cd_mh

Can you imagine if AOL + MSN jump into the marketing game by matching this "feature" ?

You suddenly have a potential universe of about 60 million (rough guess) + surfers blocking Pops.

Scuba · 08-19-2002, 06:10 AM

Personally I don't like popups. But I understand that it's an important source of revenew for lot's of sites today.
I think that webmaster are bringing it on themselfs. By abusing the PopUp media feature on lot's of sites they have anoyed the visitors so much that they have opened a market for PopUps/Banner blockers. and it was only time untill some ISP (unfortunatly one of the bigs) decided that in order to give his visitors a "better experiance" he will "add" one of this programs as a standard feature to the tool's he give them.

My main problem is diferant.
This type of programs practically disable a feature that is builded into the faundation of the HTML/JS standards. If using this type of programs will be more common, I for example will not be able to use this features also for things that are not ad oriented.

Still it's much more easy this way.
Just direct all the visitors from Earthlink to a page that say that this site is up deu to the popups in it, and that if they want to view it that they better get a real ISP that don't try to stop the usage of stansards.

On the buttom line - It's much more easy to block visitors from a single ISP than to try and detect the use of PopUp/Banner blockers on a personal visitor base.

Hope I make sense

Lil_Red · 08-19-2002, 06:41 AM

Maybe, this will be a wake up call to the ad networks that pops don't work and only serve to alienate eyeballs. As far as I'm concerned, Fastclick is absolutely the only company so far that does pops correctly.

Furton · 08-19-2002, 07:16 AM

Quote:

"The pop-up blocker is the most exciting feature. About 4.1 billion pop-up ads are served on the Internet and we have had consumers tell us that is the most annoying experience on the Internet. We are happy to give customers the ability to control their Internet experience," said EarthLink's vice president of product development Jim Anderson.

And I'm happy to stop visitors with pop up blockers from visiting my sites, what goes around comes around.

Mehere · 08-19-2002, 07:37 AM

Main reason banner clickthrough rates are down is ad networks are to agressive with pops on entry and exit.
Surfer no longer clicks as he is frightened of pop up hell and frozen browsers.
some of the below from another forum made interesting reading
Here's some of the features that these programs include:

Blocks banner ads
Blocks pop-ups
Blocks animated Flash ads
Filters cookies
Blocks pop-unders
Blocks background music
Block 'referrer' strings
Single Click Cookie Cleanup
Customize the ad database
Clear browsing history

Source:
http://www.adsubtract.com/pro/features.html

So, not only can they block the ads - they can also stop you making money from ads. Basically, if the surfer is using one of these bits of software, you're in big trouble. There's not THAT much that you can do.

Check out this extract too:

"The emotionally charged nuisance factor often sparks people's interest in blocking online advertisements, but there are other good reasons to fight back: Blocking ads frees up precious bandwidth and can protect your privacy. Ads take time to load, and they get in the way. "They're forcing us to do something" that most people don't want to do, says Intermute CEO Ed English, whose company makes the AdSubtract ad-blocker program."

Source:
Block, Block, Block That Ad
http://www.pcworld.com/features/arti...29,pg,3,00.asp

... which makes my blood boil... As I said at the end of last week I believe - why are websites meant to produce content for free? It doesn't make sense.

And the author of this article seems sympathetic to our cause:

"It's an Advertising Virus

Ad blockers turn advertising into a computer virus. Those of us who make our living from advertising will do what we can to beat the ad blockers. We'll figure out how they work and then find a way to get past them and deliver ads to users. And that will work for only as long as it takes the software companies to create a "patch" that screens out our latest attack."

Source:
Another Hurdle: Ad-Blocking Software
http://www.clickz.com/tech/ad_tech/article.php/841571

The aricle also states that there are... "fewer than 10 million users of this kind of software"...

Further Reading:

The Dilemma of Ad-Blocking Software
http://www.clickz.com/media/media_bu...cle.php/840581

Writer's block ad-blocking software
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9907/12/fiction.idg/

Could ad-blocking software end the web as we know it?
http://www.hightechcareers.com/doc69...orking699.html

Will Banner Blocking Software Kill Internet Marketing?
http://www.iboost.com/promote/advert...cles/00604.htm

Scuba · 08-19-2002, 08:41 AM

One of the sites I visit several times a day have a DHTML/Flash ad's that pop one time a day. some times this things have a "X" to close them on the spot, but some times this very anoying pop's acn't be closed untill they finish to show the animation. Add to it a very anoyin sound that almost every time embadded into them and interfear with other sound erlated aplications that I actually need and want......

I have never clicked on a ad that made me angry And will not buy from a company that advertise itself using such anoying ad's.

The more anoying and intrusive ad's will become the more antegonisem they will create and the market of Ad blockers will grow.
By usint too much popup's, popup hell's, trap's, bandwidth eating animaions, banners that don't need to be clicked cause they have a "onMouseOver" web masters bring this on themselfs.
I bet almost every one here remember a time when he fell into such a trap, and was thinking to himself "maybe I'll get one of this programs"

funtoon · 08-19-2002, 08:47 AM

This is really annoying now ISP start blocking pop-ups.

Recently we installed the Antiadbuster Pro (beta) version, with the pop-up blocking detection module as a test case on a large website (the % of pop-up blockers that we detected was quite high) and my god I got quite a few mails from visitors saying how could we launch a product that blocks if them if they block the popup, they were arguing that they have every right to block the pop-ups!

I guess one pop-up per session is okay and visitors should not mind that for the free-content they are getting, I guess if other ISP start this practice, I dont know what will happen to webmasters already our revenue is way south.

But on the other hand I guess some webmasters are also to be blamed for who have abused the popups by spawning multiple pop-ups, pop-up hell, they ought to understand that this is not doing any good to anybody……and sooner or later advertisers will realise that this sort of stuff is not doing any good infact it will hurt the image of the comapny and eventually advertiser wont advertise on pop-ups.

Fei · 08-19-2002, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scuba
One of the sites I visit several times a day have a DHTML/Flash ad's that pop one time a day. some times this things have a "X" to close them on the spot, but some times this very anoying pop's acn't be closed untill they finish to show the animation. Add to it a very anoyin sound that almost every time embadded into them and interfear with other sound erlated aplications that I actually need and want......

I have never clicked on a ad that made me angry And will not buy from a company that advertise itself using such anoying ad's.

The more anoying and intrusive ad's will become the more antegonisem they will create and the market of Ad blockers will grow.
By usint too much popup's, popup hell's, trap's, bandwidth eating animaions, banners that don't need to be clicked cause they have a "onMouseOver" web masters bring this on themselfs.
I bet almost every one here remember a time when he fell into such a trap, and was thinking to himself "maybe I'll get one of this programs"

i hate those flash ads...just because of those i stopped visitng ifilm, gamespydaily and planetunreal. they should get rid of those and popunders..

lmergen · 08-19-2002, 10:24 AM

Is this even legal what they're doing?

I mean, I always see people using pop-up blockers as thieves (they steal content, in my opinion) , and now large ISP's start blocking pop-ups, isn't there something we can do about this?

I mean, us, hard-working webmasters/site owners/marketers/etc , we try to make profit out of a site in which we provide its services for free, and in return we ask them to view the ads, and even possibly buy something from the advertisers.

This is just like a kiosk store selling newspapers, and a kiosk next to it cuts the advertisements out of the newspapers, yet, they both pay the same price for the newspapers from the vendors.

Just my $0.02 on this issue.

qball0213 · 08-19-2002, 10:48 AM

Well maybe we should send visitors looking for eartlink to earthlink.net or eartlink.com, hehe, I just tried em both and it was popup and gator city.

Guava · 08-19-2002, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by qball0213
Well maybe we should send visitors looking for eartlink to earthlink.net or eartlink.com, hehe, I just tried em both and it was popup and gator city.

Might want to double-check that qball. I went to earthlink.net (same as earthlink.com) and there wasn't a single pop or reference to gator.

Did you actually mean the mispell of earthlink.com to be eartlink.com? I went there and it was ugly. Pops and gator DL's just like you said.

PlanetLaunch · 08-19-2002, 11:34 AM

Just Earthlink's way to try to get an edge on the competition and a boost in their stock price (up 10% today). The company is in pretty bad shape with very little growth over the last couple of years, so they need to find something to get a competitive advantage.

Unfortunately they taking away the bread and butter revenue from many free content websites with what they are doing. But since it is not coming out of their pockets, they could probably not care less.

This is certainly another case where webmasters and publishers need to band together to send a clear message to Earthlink (and any other ISP that will follow their lead) to stop the blocking of ads or changing the way that websites are displayed. If their is no backlash on this issue, then all of the other ISP's will follow the lead in order to give their stock the same kind of boost that they are all struggling for.

Personally, popups do annoy me, but I can choose not to visit websites that annoy me. Also, one single popup per website visit is acceptable to me in most cases. Most of your major free content websites use the single popup. It is really a small price to pay for what is being offered on most of the top tier websites.

Obviously if ad blocking continues to increase in usage, the major sites will all become subscription based or go out of business. So in the long run who really wins? Nobody. Just a temporary lift for some ad blocking software companies and ISPs. Shame. Shame.

budsinc · 08-19-2002, 11:35 AM

I definitly agree with lmergen on the legality issues. Also shouldn't it be illegal for them to be altering our html code without our written consent. As far as I'm concerned, if we have a java pop on our page and they are removing it, they are altering our code, which is copy protected. So companies like MaxWorldwide, 24/7, and all the rest, not t mention the IAB, who I feel does nothing should sue Earthlink.

darnell · 08-19-2002, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lmergen
Is this even legal what they're doing?

I mean, I always see people using pop-up blockers as thieves (they steal content, in my opinion) , and now large ISP's start blocking pop-ups, isn't there something we can do about this?

I mean, us, hard-working webmasters/site owners/marketers/etc , we try to make profit out of a site in which we provide its services for free, and in return we ask them to view the ads, and even possibly buy something from the advertisers.

This is just like a kiosk store selling newspapers, and a kiosk next to it cuts the advertisements out of the newspapers, yet, they both pay the same price for the newspapers from the vendors.

Just my $0.02 on this issue.

Currently it is legal. But this goes hand and hand with the TV companies fight against Replay TV and ad skipping. If they can MAKE IT illegal to skip ads then we will be able to win a legal fight against ad blocking too.

But for now a person can legally alter the content knowingly.

This is a blow for us all.

But I'm glad I started selling my best content in book and CD form. So users must pay if they want the good stuff. I think everyone should just start running something fee based. Let them block all the ads they want. They will pay me for the true quality stuff

.

PaulT · 08-19-2002, 12:47 PM

Well, I don't really think we can do much about this.

However, to be honest with you - I don't see either MSN or AOL going down this route, simply because they both own large web-properties that run pop-up / under ads.

If they did decide to block pop-up ads, surely they would be shooting themselves in the foot as they may suddenly find their web properties unprofitable?

I have to agree with Lil_Red about pop-up delivery. I've seen many sites with 3 or 4 pop-up ads on just one page, and when I've informed the ad networks (ValueClick for an example) they simply aren't interested at all.

08-19-2002, 03:40 AM	#1
Steve_S Join Date: Aug 1998 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA Posts: 5,223	Earthlink BLOCKS Pops Iv'e had better days <sigh> Exstracto: "The pop-up blocker software, which eliminates all pop-up and pop-under ads, is expected to help EarthLink differentiate itself as it tries to gain market share from market leader AOL. " The full story: http://news.com.com/2100-1023-954279.html?tag=cd_mh Can you imagine if AOL + MSN jump into the marketing game by matching this "feature" ? You suddenly have a potential universe of about 60 million (rough guess) + surfers blocking Pops. Last edited by Steve_S; 08-19-2002 at 03:43 AM.

08-19-2002, 08:47 AM	#7
funtoon Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: India Posts: 402	This is really annoying now ISP start blocking pop-ups. Recently we installed the Antiadbuster Pro (beta) version, with the pop-up blocking detection module as a test case on a large website (the % of pop-up blockers that we detected was quite high) and my god I got quite a few mails from visitors saying how could we launch a product that blocks if them if they block the popup, they were arguing that they have every right to block the pop-ups! I guess one pop-up per session is okay and visitors should not mind that for the free-content they are getting, I guess if other ISP start this practice, I dont know what will happen to webmasters already our revenue is way south. But on the other hand I guess some webmasters are also to be blamed for who have abused the popups by spawning multiple pop-ups, pop-up hell, they ought to understand that this is not doing any good to anybody……and sooner or later advertisers will realise that this sort of stuff is not doing any good infact it will hurt the image of the comapny and eventually advertiser wont advertise on pop-ups. Last edited by funtoon; 08-19-2002 at 08:52 AM.

08-19-2002, 11:35 AM	#13
budsinc Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 288	I definitly agree with lmergen on the legality issues. Also shouldn't it be illegal for them to be altering our html code without our written consent. As far as I'm concerned, if we have a java pop on our page and they are removing it, they are altering our code, which is copy protected. So companies like MaxWorldwide, 24/7, and all the rest, not t mention the IAB, who I feel does nothing should sue Earthlink. __________________ ALL US campaigns above $0.16 cpm net to publisher! Don't Lose Money, Get Paid Net 30! Switch To BUDS Media today!

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08-19-2002, 06:10 AM	#2
Scuba Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The Holly Land Posts: 995	Personally I don't like popups. But I understand that it's an important source of revenew for lot's of sites today. I think that webmaster are bringing it on themselfs. By abusing the PopUp media feature on lot's of sites they have anoyed the visitors so much that they have opened a market for PopUps/Banner blockers. and it was only time untill some ISP (unfortunatly one of the bigs) decided that in order to give his visitors a "better experiance" he will "add" one of this programs as a standard feature to the tool's he give them. My main problem is diferant. This type of programs practically disable a feature that is builded into the faundation of the HTML/JS standards. If using this type of programs will be more common, I for example will not be able to use this features also for things that are not ad oriented. Still it's much more easy this way. Just direct all the visitors from Earthlink to a page that say that this site is up deu to the popups in it, and that if they want to view it that they better get a real ISP that don't try to stop the usage of stansards. On the buttom line - It's much more easy to block visitors from a single ISP than to try and detect the use of PopUp/Banner blockers on a personal visitor base. Hope I make sense

08-19-2002, 06:41 AM	#3
Lil_Red Registered User Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 1,579	Maybe, this will be a wake up call to the ad networks that pops don't work and only serve to alienate eyeballs. As far as I'm concerned, Fastclick is absolutely the only company so far that does pops correctly.

08-19-2002, 07:37 AM	#5
Mehere Member. Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 153	Main reason banner clickthrough rates are down is ad networks are to agressive with pops on entry and exit. Surfer no longer clicks as he is frightened of pop up hell and frozen browsers. some of the below from another forum made interesting reading Here's some of the features that these programs include: Blocks banner ads Blocks pop-ups Blocks animated Flash ads Filters cookies Blocks pop-unders Blocks background music Block 'referrer' strings Single Click Cookie Cleanup Customize the ad database Clear browsing history Source: http://www.adsubtract.com/pro/features.html So, not only can they block the ads - they can also stop you making money from ads. Basically, if the surfer is using one of these bits of software, you're in big trouble. There's not THAT much that you can do. Check out this extract too: "The emotionally charged nuisance factor often sparks people's interest in blocking online advertisements, but there are other good reasons to fight back: Blocking ads frees up precious bandwidth and can protect your privacy. Ads take time to load, and they get in the way. "They're forcing us to do something" that most people don't want to do, says Intermute CEO Ed English, whose company makes the AdSubtract ad-blocker program." Source: Block, Block, Block That Ad http://www.pcworld.com/features/arti...29,pg,3,00.asp ... which makes my blood boil... As I said at the end of last week I believe - why are websites meant to produce content for free? It doesn't make sense. And the author of this article seems sympathetic to our cause: "It's an Advertising Virus Ad blockers turn advertising into a computer virus. Those of us who make our living from advertising will do what we can to beat the ad blockers. We'll figure out how they work and then find a way to get past them and deliver ads to users. And that will work for only as long as it takes the software companies to create a "patch" that screens out our latest attack." Source: Another Hurdle: Ad-Blocking Software http://www.clickz.com/tech/ad_tech/article.php/841571 The aricle also states that there are... "fewer than 10 million users of this kind of software"... Further Reading: The Dilemma of Ad-Blocking Software http://www.clickz.com/media/media_bu...cle.php/840581 Writer's block ad-blocking software http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9907/12/fiction.idg/ Could ad-blocking software end the web as we know it? http://www.hightechcareers.com/doc69...orking699.html Will Banner Blocking Software Kill Internet Marketing? http://www.iboost.com/promote/advert...cles/00604.htm

08-19-2002, 08:41 AM	#6
Scuba Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The Holly Land Posts: 995	One of the sites I visit several times a day have a DHTML/Flash ad's that pop one time a day. some times this things have a "X" to close them on the spot, but some times this very anoying pop's acn't be closed untill they finish to show the animation. Add to it a very anoyin sound that almost every time embadded into them and interfear with other sound erlated aplications that I actually need and want...... I have never clicked on a ad that made me angry And will not buy from a company that advertise itself using such anoying ad's. The more anoying and intrusive ad's will become the more antegonisem they will create and the market of Ad blockers will grow. By usint too much popup's, popup hell's, trap's, bandwidth eating animaions, banners that don't need to be clicked cause they have a "onMouseOver" web masters bring this on themselfs. I bet almost every one here remember a time when he fell into such a trap, and was thinking to himself "maybe I'll get one of this programs"

08-19-2002, 10:24 AM	#9
lmergen Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Enschede, The Netherlands Posts: 185	Is this even legal what they're doing? I mean, I always see people using pop-up blockers as thieves (they steal content, in my opinion) , and now large ISP's start blocking pop-ups, isn't there something we can do about this? I mean, us, hard-working webmasters/site owners/marketers/etc , we try to make profit out of a site in which we provide its services for free, and in return we ask them to view the ads, and even possibly buy something from the advertisers. This is just like a kiosk store selling newspapers, and a kiosk next to it cuts the advertisements out of the newspapers, yet, they both pay the same price for the newspapers from the vendors. Just my $0.02 on this issue.

08-19-2002, 10:48 AM	#10
qball0213 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 298	Well maybe we should send visitors looking for eartlink to earthlink.net or eartlink.com, hehe, I just tried em both and it was popup and gator city.

08-19-2002, 11:34 AM	#12
PlanetLaunch Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 200	Just Earthlink's way to try to get an edge on the competition and a boost in their stock price (up 10% today). The company is in pretty bad shape with very little growth over the last couple of years, so they need to find something to get a competitive advantage. Unfortunately they taking away the bread and butter revenue from many free content websites with what they are doing. But since it is not coming out of their pockets, they could probably not care less. This is certainly another case where webmasters and publishers need to band together to send a clear message to Earthlink (and any other ISP that will follow their lead) to stop the blocking of ads or changing the way that websites are displayed. If their is no backlash on this issue, then all of the other ISP's will follow the lead in order to give their stock the same kind of boost that they are all struggling for. Personally, popups do annoy me, but I can choose not to visit websites that annoy me. Also, one single popup per website visit is acceptable to me in most cases. Most of your major free content websites use the single popup. It is really a small price to pay for what is being offered on most of the top tier websites. Obviously if ad blocking continues to increase in usage, the major sites will all become subscription based or go out of business. So in the long run who really wins? Nobody. Just a temporary lift for some ad blocking software companies and ISPs. Shame. Shame.

08-19-2002, 12:47 PM	#15
PaulT Registered User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 377	Well, I don't really think we can do much about this. However, to be honest with you - I don't see either MSN or AOL going down this route, simply because they both own large web-properties that run pop-up / under ads. If they did decide to block pop-up ads, surely they would be shooting themselves in the foot as they may suddenly find their web properties unprofitable? I have to agree with Lil_Red about pop-up delivery. I've seen many sites with 3 or 4 pop-up ads on just one page, and when I've informed the ad networks (ValueClick for an example) they simply aren't interested at all.