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Old 06-27-2002, 05:08 PM   #1
keavin
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Default Publishers Fight Back!

I know this has been discussed before so I thought I would post this. (Mod -If it's too off topic, sorry you can delete it.)

Finally some publishers with Deep pockets are going after companies like Gator.. Hopefully next they go after these adfilting makers.

"A group of Web publishers filed suit in federal
court this week against the scrappy Internet
ad network Gator Corp., charging that Gator
sells ads on their Web sites without authorization and pockets the proceeds.

"'Gator Corp. is essentially a parasite that free
rides on the hard work and investment' of the
publishers, said the lawsuit, filed Tuesday by a
dozen large publishers in U.S. District Court
in Alexandria."

Here is a link to the full article
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002Jun26.html
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Old 06-27-2002, 05:11 PM   #2
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This is really cool - since actually Gator uses URL's to target their advertisements for.

I paid Gator once for advertising at a competitor's URL - it worked out REALLY well (got a 75% conversion rate) , however, I do think that Gator uses the website('s success) to target their advertisements - which is clearly wrong.

But I don't know if I am so strong against it - I just think that it would be nice if Gator notified it if a competitor uses my URL to target their advertisements at, and that I can object, since they're basically stealing my visitors/members.
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Old 06-27-2002, 06:45 PM   #3
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If people will start to BEHAVE like humans - Don't do to another what you don't like that will be doen for you - there will be no need of such law suits.

Gator and such are compleatly out of line in this matters and I agree that they are catching a ride one other publishers and murchents/advertisers/etc hard work and money invested.

Like the suits agenst Verisign not long ago,
I hope that more of this kind will come. Suits that are not what we got acustumed to stupid "patent" on link "Click" but things that actually protect the public.

suits like this is what restors my faith in the law system and the human nature. hopully they will win
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Old 06-27-2002, 08:12 PM   #4
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Well Imergen, you can't have it both ways, you did it, but if someone did it to you you would like to be notified and be able to object, hehe, if they did that then they would not get any business. Gator and everyone like them is a thief, and you bought the stolen goods off of them, simple as that.
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Old 06-27-2002, 09:22 PM   #5
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Hopefully this action will demonstrate to certain ad networks (*ahem L90, ahem FocusIN *) that to support scumware like this is to write a death warrant for one's reputation in the larger publishing community.

Fortunately, ClickZ seems to have replaced Gator with Google as the sponsor of their media buying column. That brief lapse in ethics on behalf of the INT team still astonishes me.

BTW, I'll leave this thread in the Make Money forum for now since it does relate directly to this part of the web publishing experience, but will have it archived in our StopScum forum once it's finished its run here.
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Old 06-27-2002, 10:56 PM   #6
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Default Interesting artical on Yahoo about Gator

There is an interesting story on Yahoo about Gator.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...0104&printer=1

<Admin says:: Thanks so much. I'm going to merge this post into our other thread on this issue>

Last edited by Steve_S; 06-29-2002 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 06-28-2002, 04:21 AM   #7
lmergen
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Quote:
Originally posted by qball0213
Well Imergen, you can't have it both ways, you did it, but if someone did it to you you would like to be notified and be able to object, hehe, if they did that then they would not get any business. Gator and everyone like them is a thief, and you bought the stolen goods off of them, simple as that.
True, I confess

But I wouldn't have mind if the publisher I was targetting at would have objected for the advertising proposal. All I am saying is that Gator didn't handle nice in this case... maybe they could even get some possible partnerships - for 75% of the revenue, Gator is allowed to advertise at my site
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Old 06-28-2002, 09:01 AM   #8
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lmergen - you might want to read that article. Especially the part about how an advertiser who did exactly what you did (advertise through Gator on a competitor's site) was sued and fined $25K in a separate lawsuit. You might hope your competitor doesn't know you hijacked his traffic this way and that he doesn't find out.
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Old 06-28-2002, 11:43 AM   #9
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A non attorney view:

Outstanding news. The plaintiffs are huge companys with very very "deep pockets" so they can spend large sums of money and have the staying power for a long time. Does a small company like Gator have these resources?

With a dozen or so of them, a settlement will be much more complex so this may mean a ruling that prohibits this theftware as opposed to some washed out "deal"

Gator is on the defensive and I love the 12 to 1 odds in this deal and the size of 12 companys verses a very small company.

Gator has no business model if they ask first before they hijack my traffic nor are we likely to see them offer to share revenue with me. Their current model precludes this. They sell first, cash the check, and then steal traffic.

Merchants should also be happy about this law suit and those Publishers which I still see delivering the Gator plug in download (saw 2 yesterday) would be smart to remove this stuff yesterday.

Just my 2 cents
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Old 06-28-2002, 12:13 PM   #10
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Steve just a few things to note:

Gator is not a small company they have raised millions in venture capital. In the last round they got $44 million. They curently have millions of dollars coming in from advertisers, and as time goes on, more and more companies start using them. Some clients spend more then million per year with them. I spoke with a person who has some inside information on them and he told me they can spend couple of million dollars per year on legal fees without having much effect on bottom line. That means that most probably in court fight will go on and on and on forever. The only people who will benefit from this will be the law firms since they will be collecting money for the work. I don't really see web publishers getting much benefit from this, except maybe few big ones, but thats about it.





Quote:
Originally posted by Steve_S


A non attorney view:

Outstanding news. The plaintiffs are huge companys with very very "deep pockets" so they can spend large sums of money and have the staying power for a long time. Does a small company like Gator have these resources?

With a dozen or so of them, a settlement will be much more complex so this may mean a ruling that prohibits this theftware as opposed to some washed out "deal"

Gator is on the defensive and I love the 12 to 1 odds in this deal and the size of 12 companys verses a very small company.

Gator has no business model if they ask first before they hijack my traffic nor are we likely to see them offer to share revenue with me. Their current model precludes this. They sell first, cash the check, and then steal traffic.

Merchants should also be happy about this law suit and those Publishers which I still see delivering the Gator plug in download (saw 2 yesterday) would be smart to remove this stuff yesterday.

Just my 2 cents
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Old 06-28-2002, 02:09 PM   #11
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Only time will tell and yea, the attorneys will make a ton of money

Some additional facts for consideration:

Hello Gator! Meet your opposition.


From the article: "Terence Ross, the lawyer representing the publishers...."

One of the formost IP attorneys in the intire world and the law firm shoud ring a bell with some of you. This is a heavy heavy hitter. Did I say heavy


Terence Ross, a partner in the Washington, D.C., office of Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher

interesting reading on Mr. Ross at:

http://www.fiosinc.com/wp-mccarthy.html

and:

http://www.gibsondunn.com/Attorneys/...y.asp?ID=03575

Gator is privately held so resources are unknown. OK, assume they have millons to spend like you say and they can continue to recieve VC funding and have the resources to indure years of legal action.

From the article: "The irate publishers include The Washington Post Co., the New York Times Co., Dow Jones & Co., Tribune Interactive, Gannett Co., Knight Ridder Digital, Condenet and American City Business Journals Inc. "

These folks combined have significantly more money to spend and resources. They include some of THE largest media companies (in their space) in the entire world. Folks that have been to court a zillon times and are well versed in legal disputes. 2 mil for a suit is small potatoes for this gagle of heavy hitters. Think "Watergate" and "The Pentagon Pappers"

I'm going to try and get the transcripts. If any of you are near the court I would be happy to pay you for these transcripts and would be very gratefull

See: http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/locations/ale.htm


BTW, where is the Gator PR responce to this action?

Last edited by Steve_S; 06-28-2002 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 06-28-2002, 03:34 PM   #12
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No need for the transcripts.

Mr. Ross (Plaintiff counsel) was kind enough to provide the following links. I called him I will be speaking to him after I have digested this data and in the interest of fair play try and reach Gator for comments.

The second paragraph on the following page:

http://www.gibsondunn.com/AreasOfPra...1PG.asp?ID=105

The complaint:

http://www.gibsondunn.com/Media/WP_Complaint.pdf

Memorandum in Support of a Motion for Preliminary Injunction

http://www.gibsondunn.com/Media/WP_Motion.pdf
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Old 06-28-2002, 10:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve_S
and those Publishers which I still see delivering the Gator plug in download (saw 2 yesterday) would be smart to remove this stuff yesterday.

Ooops... Up until a minute ago, that included me. Honestly, I hadn't paid much attention to this issue until now, and I suppose that I may have been a bit neglectful about it.

But, upon further reading, it appears that the Gator "scumware" component is apparantly automatically included in their standard "Fill-Out-The-Forms" application (the "free" download.) Note that that is what they are pushing via their affiliate program at BeFree/Reporting.Net.

Based upon this information, I have just removed all banners and text links for the Gator affiliate program on my "freebie" site, and will no longer consider them as a sponsor. I have even decided to forfeit the money earned (I am under the payment threshold) from that program.

I encourage other publishers to do the same.


BTW, I would like to compile a list of "scumware" information sites (to list on the site in my .sig), so please anyone feel free to email me suggestions at webmaster@websponsorzone.com . Thanks...
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Old 06-28-2002, 11:23 PM   #14
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News report of Gator's reaction:
http://www.internetnews.com/IAR/article.php/1378401
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Old 06-28-2002, 11:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by wsz
BTW, I would like to compile a list of "scumware" information sites (to list on the site in my .sig), so please anyone feel free to email me suggestions at webmaster@websponsorzone.com . Thanks...
One such list already exists, but in case you'd like to build upon their's or simply research the issue further, see this page for a wealth of links to anti-scumware resources:
http://www.scumware.com/wm3.html

One notable exclusion from that list (don't ask ) is, of course, Geek/Talk's own StopScum forum, so that would be a notable addition to your collection.
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