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Old 10-17-2001, 03:08 PM   #1
titanium
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Angry Deleted by Bannerspace

Just today I have been deleted by bannerspace for not enough US visitors? in their email they said only 18% of my visitors are US based, I went on their ToS to check what's the required percentage of US traffic require, no where on there ToS says that any site require a certain percentage of US traffic. I am not happy about this, have anyone got any problems like this with them?
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Old 10-17-2001, 03:15 PM   #2
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This seems to be an ongoing trend with bannerspace. I believe if you do a search here, you will find a number of us were booted from bannerspace for exactly this reason.
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Old 10-17-2001, 03:42 PM   #3
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titanium,

I am not condoning or validating bannerspace's actions....I'm just making an observation ( I said that in my best "don't kill the messenger" voice.)


I am seeing ALL companies we do business with, from large ad networks, to the PPC search engines, to small websites really keeping a close eye on the percentage of USA traffic. Their interest in this statistic has really increased in the last 3 mos. or so.

I think it's only going to become more and more prevelant.
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Old 10-17-2001, 04:07 PM   #4
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In our case, we were giving them nearly 90% US traffic (we have geotargeting capability) and they claimed we were giving them 17% US traffic. With the number of GV people here who have reported being terminated by Bannerspace for similar reasons, it sounds as if Bannerspace may be using this as a method of not paying publishers.
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Old 10-17-2001, 04:09 PM   #5
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I agree with Lil_red, I mean if they want publishers to have a certain % of US traffic, they should at least state it in the ToS.

I recently did a survey on my site regarding what continent my visitors are from, at least 50% of my traffic are US based, 18%? give me a break.
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Old 10-17-2001, 04:24 PM   #6
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As a rule of thumb for the last 6 mos or so....

50% of normal web traffic is USA. 25% is comercially productive non-USA and 25% in comercially unproductive non-USA.
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Old 10-17-2001, 09:06 PM   #7
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While this policy may not be listed on BannerSpace's site, AFAIK the firm requests an assurance pertaining to this before accepting a new publisher.

For example, I submitted an application to have BannerSpace represent one of my sites in February of this year, and was contacted shortly aftr via email with an inquiry as to what proportion of my traffic was sourced from the US. My acceptance was based on the condition that this proportion would be maintained.

Now, it could very well be that their figures are off in the cases mentioned above, and that's certainly an uncomfortable prospect, but this announcement isn't beyond the scope of the terms to which you likely agreed.

As a side note, I can confirm receipt of a very overdue payment from the company recently (with June revenues received about 10 days ago). They're still functioning, still selling successfully and still issuing payments - though the weak market has certainly constricted the firm's cashflow situation.

Though it's always been a fringe operator, I wouldn't mind betting that BannerSpace will be one of the only CPM/CPC ad reps targeting small-medium sites that survives the shakeout. It could be that this trimming process is a necessary part of ensuring that future.


Question to Lil_Red: In which month were you terminated, and which is the last payment that you received from the company?
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Old 10-17-2001, 10:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Czar

Question to Lil_Red: In which month were you terminated, and which is the last payment that you received from the company?
Terminated 7/9/01 without warning. They only responded after I asked why no ads were showing up. This was when I was told I had only 17% US traffic. This is interesting since a very well known ad network tracks this same category and shows nearly 90% US traffic in the same slots as the bannerspace ads used to reside.

To date, we have not received payment for any ads served. I made a query in June regarding payment on ads delivered since their website says Net30. The email response I received basically said their advertisers had not paid them and until they were paid by their advertisers, publishers would not be paid. Interestingly, we were terminated a few days after my query regarding payment.
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Old 10-17-2001, 11:25 PM   #9
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That's very disappointing to read, Lil.

In fact, though I've been a BannerSpace member since early this year, I only started carrying their banner code during the last few days of May after having read that you use them. To now find that your've never been paid is disturbing indeed.

Apart from the payment covering May/June revenues, I have not received any compensation from BannerSpace and, like you, I've contacted them a few times in order to query this. I received the same excuse (two of their major accounts were with companies that went bankrupt, and BannerSpace was left to chase up the amounts owed before they could issue payments to affiliates), but have fortunately evaded termination thus far.

Fingers crossed that they'll come clean and deliver back-payments to those publishers whose accounts were dropped.
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Old 10-18-2001, 07:28 AM   #10
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It is disappointing as they seemed reputable at first. They answered questions promptly, were helpful and seemed genuinely interested in providing a quality service.

Some days, it feels like the norm is for advertisers to find ways to not pay the publisher. Admittedly, some publishers cheat but there are a lot of publishers who do a good job and are constantly cheated by the ad networks. Gotta say I miss the days of CPM where you didn't have to worry about lead reversals, click reversals, traffic issues. Now, every month, I worry which ad network is NOT going to pay this time. Makes for a lot of sleepless nights.
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Old 10-18-2001, 01:58 PM   #11
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If your website is in English then there is no way your US traffic would be below 50%. I don't think that anyone (or any company) that makes the claim that an english website has less that 20% US traffic can be seen as credible. It is one thing to claim that a website is not getting enough US traffic, but to say that it is less than 20% is just outright lying. No reputable company would lie that bluntly to someone. I guess it is very obvious that we are not talking about a reputable company here. I would never use them, and I would suggest that no one else out there use them either. I would advise all members using them right now to stop, BannerSpace, for all intents and purposes, is dead. There is a chance you might receive a small payment from them, but its a gamble. I would not be willing to gamble my time, ad space, and money on this company.
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Old 10-18-2001, 03:47 PM   #12
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Default This US thing is a lie

They did this to me too. Their method of figuring out US traffic is seriously flawed and manipulated so they can remove anyone they want whenever they want. I did a post a while back about this, and am sorry this happened to you also. Their numbers are complete BS

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Old 10-18-2001, 03:50 PM   #13
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Default oh another note

Also forgot to mention- they never paid me 130$ or so either even after multiple requests.
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Old 10-18-2001, 05:08 PM   #14
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The really difficult bad apples to pinpoint are the ones that pay some webmasters and not others, or perhaps make a few payments to you at first and then stop.
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Old 10-10-2003, 09:31 AM   #15
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I worked in accounting at BannerSpace.com during 2000 - 2001.

This was a bad time for all ad networks, as well as publishers. Our bad debt ratio for the second half 2000 through first half 2001 was a rediculous 70-80% as our dot com clients were dropping like flies. Publishers must realize that any network or agency cannot disburse funds until they are received from the advertiser, if they want to stay in business, and any publisher that joined our network agreed to these terms when they signed up. We paid very high legal expenses, out of pocket, to go after these non-paying customers, but most of them were disapearring, leaving nothing behind.

This is the reason for the very late payments (6 months in some cases) and for payments being prorated to smaller amounts due to only receiving payment from some of the advertisers.

Everybody, including us, wishes we were back in 1999, but things are different now. That said, things are looking up now as compared to 2001-2002, and our current publishers are quite happy with recent results. Rates are up, publisher who perform well are getting almost all CPM, and our bad debts have been cut to less than 10%, through very strict credit policies.

Anyone reading the above postings in this thread should note the following:

1. These are 2 years old. Recent publisher feedback has been positive.

2. We will not pay sites who attempt to cheat us and our advertisers, nor will we waste time responding to emails from these sites once they are caught and we have documented clear evidence of fraud or terms violations. We will respond promtly to emails from publishers with good standing. If a site is claiming we "used to" respond to inquiries and no longer do, they were most likely caught cheating. Note that most of these complaints are repeats from the same few individuals. If the allegations were true, there would be a much higher percentage of the thousands of active sites complaining.

Think about it for a minute. If we terminate a publisher, we no longer make anything either on that site's inventory. Publishers are our business. If our business was to terminate accounts and not pay them, we could not stay in business. We will do everthing we can to keep publisher account open long term, because that is how we make money. It does us no good when we terminate an account, because A.) there is no further revenue from that account, and B.) the money is credited back to the advertiser(s) who's campaigns were affected.

As for the US percentage problem, any time an account is suspended for this reason, the publisher is given many warnings ahead of time, and plenty of opportunity to solve the problem. In cases where the publisher feels that our geographic statistics do not match their own, our policy is to send a highly detailed report of traffic over a sample period, including IP addresses of all users and the country of origin. We then ask the publisher to forward their detailed logs so that we may compare line-by-line and figure out where the discrepancy lies.

Our policy on this is in place only because the majority of our clients are seeking US traffic. This is one reason we have a higher CPM/CPC ratio than other networks, and higher net CPM revenue. A lot has changed since these old posts, and we now offer publishers several options if this problem arises, including filtering the non-targeted traffic to a any type of default ad provided by the publsiher. With this option, we still take traffic from other counties as well, as long as they are being targeted by one of our advertisers.

In conclusion, I think CZar is correct that Bannerspace will be one of the few ad networks that survives the industry slump, and that has already proven to be true as many companies that existed when that post was made are gone now.

Brandon C.

Last edited by brandonc; 10-10-2003 at 09:46 AM.
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