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Old 09-23-2000, 07:30 AM   #1
havaloc
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Unhappy new "paid to surf" style company

Hello

I am in the process of building a new "paid to surf" style company and would welcome any ideas or feedback on what you would like to see it have, or anything else you can think of.

To answer some questions. First of all we have a revolutionary anti-fraud measure that will make it very hard to cheat.

Second of all, we have every intention to be on everyone's computer screens across America.

Third of all, we have a lot of ideas on our revenue stream and what works, and what doesn't.

Fourth of all, as all of you are webmasters, and seeing how I would like to partner with you and have you refer members, I want to know what you value most.

And fifth, we are planning to be ready in time for the holiday season.

So I again, I would welcome anything you have to say, but spare me posts such as "it won't work", or others, because I know what I'm up against.


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Old 09-23-2000, 09:04 AM   #2
Lost Puppy
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Quote:
Originally posted by havaloc:
we have every intention to be on everyone's computer screens across America.
That's funny, we have every intention NOT to use any PTS companies accross America or around the world http://geekvillage.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Old 09-23-2000, 09:57 AM   #3
JJameson
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LOL,

Are you updated? The number on paid to surf company is gonna out of business (alladvantage) many PTS company dont' have enough advertisers.. so now.. you see many claim that you can make .60c per hour. You see the clue word.. "Can" doesn't mean you will earn 60c /h they often pay 10c-25c/hour
how much you planning to pay?
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Old 09-23-2000, 10:39 AM   #4
kris
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Smile

I know you don't want to hear this but the time to jump on the pay2surf bandwagon was about 1 year ago.
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Old 09-23-2000, 10:52 AM   #5
havaloc
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Unhappy

I am well aware of the difficulties in the paid to surf industry. I also feel that this whole "we don't have enough advertisers" excuse is just that, an excuse. There are ways to fill 100% of your inventory, and to earn money from that.

As for the pay rate, we will be paying whatever rate we can sustain. Our operating costs will be small and we are just focusing on the USA.

The rate we can afford to pay, is unknown to me until we begin. I do know that we have a different operating strategy than the other companies.

I also know just because others have not done it right, does not mean that we cannot do it right.

For example, an easily avoidable situation is downtime. I know what the growth rates are on these companies and we are going to have the servers/bandwidth to handle it. Real time stats are going to be one of our many trademarks. Accurate referral tracking, is also a must.

As far as I know, you have a choice, into joining these companies or not. With sites earning .50CPM or less, why not give them an oppurtunity to earn more by generating referrals? They have nothing to lose in my eyes.

Also, in benefits to webmasters, we are not requiring surfing on their part, although they are always welcome and in the future we will provide an incentive for doing so.

Mark my words, when we release, we are going to be around, we are going to grow and prosper, and we are going to be the best. It will be a learning process for all involved, as we tune our ad rotation and our strategies, but I will not rest on my laurels, ever. I will continue to grow and expand, and I welcome you and everyone else to come aboard when we are ready.

We are going to pay every month, and our minimal payout is probably going to be in the 10-15 dollar range, possibly lower. We are paying through paypal only, and maybe some other options. This is to lower costs, and to lower fraud a little bit.

Again, I welcome any comments, and suggestions are always welcome.


Quote:
Originally posted by JJameson:
LOL,

Are you updated? The number on paid to surf company is gonna out of business (alladvantage) many PTS company dont' have enough advertisers.. so now.. you see many claim that you can make .60c per hour. You see the clue word.. "Can" doesn't mean you will earn 60c /h they often pay 10c-25c/hour
how much you planning to pay?


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Old 09-23-2000, 10:55 AM   #6
havaloc
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Unhappy

I did not want to be involved in the bandwagon. It was much better for me to sit and watch these companies, as a user, and understand what works, and what doesn't. That just makes it better for our users in the end.

I was one of those users going crazy for referrals, and now my role is going to be making the best service, a service that I would like to use.


Quote:
Originally posted by kris:
I know you don't want to hear this but the time to jump on the pay2surf bandwagon was about 1 year ago.


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Old 09-23-2000, 10:59 AM   #7
kris
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Thumbs up

havaloc,

You have guts, that's what I like. The will to succeed... I hope you will prove me wrong in thinking pay2surf companies are dead. I am in the same situation as you, I am trying to make my secret project a reality. If you have the time, I want to speak with you privately about certain issues. Good luck with your company.
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Old 09-23-2000, 12:51 PM   #8
suresk
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Unhappy

Havaloc:

Could you maybe share with us how you plan to make a PTS program worth it to consumers and advertisers? I'm curious.

You have to realize that most webmasters are fed up with PTS companies (those who ever used/promoted them) and most won't touch them with a 10 ft pole right now. You have to SHOW how you plan on innovating your product in a way that makes it profitable. Do you just plan on being another AllAdvantage with a few minor changes?

When you say "we have every intention to be on everyone's computer screens across America." it looks very impressive, but it is an empty promise. If you are on 10% of screens accross America within a year, you'll be doing good. Empty promises might have been ok a year ago when this stuff was booming, but now, people have come to their senses and know the truth from fluff. These kind of statements make you lose credibility.

I'm sure if you gave us some more information on how you plan to be different than the other (failing) PTS companies, and revised your unrealistic statements, we'd be able to help you out a bit more.

take care, good luck with it!

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<A HREF="http://www.myprizesite.com" TARGET=_blank>
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Old 09-23-2000, 05:13 PM   #9
JakeJeck
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Unhappy

Surfing Prizes was great until they hit 120,000 users and couldn't get enough inventory for that many users. However they only had 7 ad agencies(L90/dime clicks, etc..).

With that few users they were still serving up 20,000,000 ads per day and couldn't get enough paying ads from the networks(they even had ebay listings selling ads cheap).

And remember, they only showed 1 ad on their bar, not two like most companies.

Look at all the payout rates. They have done nothing but decline. The average is about $.12/hour (CS, AA, CD, DD). It's not worth it to people who can't get referrals.


Good luck with your program, I hope it comes out as good as you say it will http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif
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Old 09-23-2000, 07:54 PM   #10
emmzee
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Unhappy

Most important things IMHO:

- Probably this goes without saying, but don't ever, EVER promise a set rate. Go with a percentage of revenue dealie.

- Offer your bar internationally right from the start. Don't even put up a website until you have a working bar that you are prepared to let anyone (well, at least most people) in the world download. I've yet to see a company do this sucessfully (well, SurfingPrizes, but ... *cough*) Jotter almost has done this right, except their bar crashes on my computer far too often.

- Don't force webmasters to surf to make money from their referrals. This just really annoys webmasters who are starting to get fed up with P2S.

- Speaking of referrals, 3-5 levels is good, you really don't need more than that. Something like:
Direct: 10%
Indirect: 5%
2nd level Indirect: 5%
3rd level Indirect: 3%
4th level Indirect: 2%
Would be okay by me.

Hmmm, that's all I can think of at the moment ... One thing to consider: I know that you mentioned a brand new cheat prevention system. But no matter what you do your program will be cheated so you have to plan for that. On the surface it looked like CashFiesta had a really good cheat prevention measure in place, and look what has happened to them ... most of their advertisers dumped them, so they had to reduce their rates, and now for the last couple days their bar hasn't worked at all.

Anyways, after all that negative stuff ... I honestly wish you the best of luck. It's my opinion that P2S can survive, and the reason it's in a slump right now is because most of the companies around simply ... well, I can't say it because it would be censored, but I'm not sure alluding to the word is against the new rules. http://geekvillage.com/ubb/wink.gif

Whew, long message. http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif Bye!

------------------
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webmaster, www.dosgames.com & www.potofgold.org
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Old 09-23-2000, 11:10 PM   #11
havaloc
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Unhappy

Kris

You can contact me via the human click logo on my website, listed on the link below.

That way I don't have to post my email address and you do not have to post yours. Your message will goto my email box.

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Old 09-25-2000, 09:16 AM   #12
havaloc
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Some comments that some of you made, and my responses.

First of all, I do not want to offer it internationally. While I realize that I am limiting my self, it makes it easier for us for several reasons.

The first is that if some user downloads our bar and uses it, they will be less likely to clickthrough, simply because we are running banners for American companies for the most park.

Second of all, there is a lot of complications with international users, including paying them, and I want to keep expenses down, and be able to pay out more to our users.

By focusing on the US right now, and doing it well, we are worth more to our users.

In regards to being different from the other paid to surf companies, I again, state that the excuse that we cannot sell our inventory is just that, an excuse. Sure, it will require a creative approach to selling space, but there are always ways to fill up that space and earn money from it. It requires understanding the end consumer and showing them banners that they are most likely to respond to. Why would I show them Aria banners over and over again, when they don't respond to them? You have to constantly adjust the rotation and keep it fresh, and therefore keep their interest up.

We are also not offering a fixed rate, but instead we offer a variable rate. We have a new approach to handling the concerns about a variable rate, but I cannot reveal that because I want to hold on to my original idea for a time before someone else copies it.

We are having 5 referral levels, and we do not require surfing to earn.

Our bar is being written so it is stable and does not hog resources. We are also having a special technology that goes a long way to try and keep cheating down. I am well aware that cheating will be a problem, but we have worked out a solution is unique in one respect. Without going into detail, it is unique because we have nothing to crack, its a totally different approach that I really cannot say what it is.

When we do open up though, you'll realize what it is and think its very neat.

I do realize though that we are still going to have to be vigilent about cheaters, and we are taking steps.



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Old 09-25-2000, 09:55 AM   #13
tymeracer
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Unhappy

I wanted to chip in a few words. We advertise heavily on GoTo, Sprinks, etc, and we have tried NetFlip and Search Cactus. From an advertising standpoint, it was a waste of money. We had an incredible number of hits, but the quality of the traffic was very poor. We are a financial services site and the traffic seemed very young and not interested in our client's products.

The fundamental idea that a user is paid to click and click, with no filter for relevancy, is gonna be very hard to overcome. We would never go back to one of these without a different payment program in which the advertisers are paid for relevant traffic based on performance "click thru", vs. visitors and window shoppers "click to".

Good luck with your venture -overcome the backwards incentives and you will do well with the advertisers.
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Old 09-25-2000, 10:49 AM   #14
WildComputer
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havaloc, I've always seriously doubted that any paid-to-surf company could work for all 3 of: advertisers, users + the company itself. The evidence from every company so far...

Goodluck - I would love for you to prove me wrong...


tymeracer, please please please consider sending me a quote or two - email webmaster@ans2000.com -,
that I can use in my E-Book about your paid search engine experiences at any search engine other than GoTo or FindWhat. Preferably 1 quote per search engine - but I'll take what I can get http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif
See http://geekvillage.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000191.html



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