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View Full Version : Read this about IconPrizes.com - Interesting


EMINEM79
06-20-2001, 07:22 PM
http://isaaf.com/iconprizes.shtml

Quote from the URL above concerning IconPrizes.com

"The lowdown on IconPrizes

IconPrizes is making it's way around the net and creating many frustrations.

With the big sham InsultMedia had shown themselves to be, many people have been concerned that IconPrizes was an IM clone. Well, it's not.

However, here's how the program works, and then you can decide if you want to use the program yourself.

IconPrizes is registered to Vladimir Khomenko of Montgomery Village in Maryland USA, who was terminated by BannersGoMLM for "Falsifying impressions at site and falsifying application information."

Many people have been reporting they are seeing ads on their own sites that are not theirs, even after uninstalling IconPrizes. The reason is because of an executable that has been bundled with the IconPrizes program, an exe called mediasrv.exe.

If you uninstall IconPrizes, mediasrv is not deleted from your computer. It is also setup to run on startup of Windows.

So what is mediasrv? Mediasrv.exe is a program that was created by AdAvailable.com. It is a new technology in adstream, but in my opinion, a new technology that is going to tick a lot of webmasters off.

The new technology? This is from AdAvailable's site:

o Placement: Go to any website and find a space where there is no banner. Want your banner to be there? We can make it happen. Place your advertising message on websites that don't sell space.

So what does this all mean? It means that if you visit web sites while mediasrv is running, those site get modified and a banner ad from AdAvailable is placed somewhere on that site without the webmaster of site's permission.

If somebody visits your site and they have this program running in the background, ads will be placed on on your site without your permission.

Personally, I don't want ads placed on my site without my permission or knowledge, that's why I pay for my hosting.

The payoff for using IconPrizes? Well, first of all, IconPrizes is getting ad revenue in a manner that I would deem as unethical. Secondly, there is no hourly rate, there is no percentage of advertising revenue, in fact, there is no tracking of ads you see when using the program. The people who will be getting paid (if anyone besides IconPrizes does) will only be paid if they are randomly selected to receive a cash prize. Good luck.



Paul Coonan
Founder, iSAAF.com"

As a webmaster this really pisses me off.

Maybe when Yahoo.com or another big dot com finds out anout this **** they will sue the hell out of them.

-Dave


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Czar
06-21-2001, 12:04 PM
Well, since Vladimir Khomenko is now a member of this forum (icmedia), you may be lucky enough to receive a comment directly from the accused.



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OC
06-21-2001, 12:34 PM
I know I'm watching this thread closely....

icmedia
06-21-2001, 01:19 PM
Hello,

I just got an email from Oneaws Pers that you wanted my opinion on this.

I am very glad you did. AdAvailable.com is a company that I helped to found. I think it is a great technology and a great idea. IconPrizes.com is a company that uses the technology of AdAvailable.com.

It is a very new and unique idea and I was very interested to see what it can do. Advertising industry is always looking for ways to upgrade itself. Banner ads, sky banner ads, pop up ads. Why not go father and create another style in the advertising industry and place banners directly on websites you go to.

Just think about it. You can advertise on any website and directly target the consumer. At this time the targeting abilities do not work so it is basically RON. But I think this technology has a very bright future.

Please email me any questions you might have. I am very interested to hear what you think.

Thank you,
Vladimir

Lil_Red
06-21-2001, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by icmedia:

I am very glad you did. AdAvailable.com is a company that I helped to found. I think it is a great technology and a great idea. IconPrizes.com is a company that uses the technology of AdAvailable.com.

It is a very new and unique idea and I was very interested to see what it can do. Advertising industry is always looking for ways to upgrade itself. Banner ads, sky banner ads, pop up ads. Why not go father and create another style in the advertising industry and place banners directly on websites you go to.

Just think about it. You can advertise on any website and directly target the consumer. At this time the targeting abilities do not work so it is basically RON. But I think this technology has a very bright future.

Thank you,
Vladimir

Vladimir,

As a publisher, I would be furious if I found ads on my website that were not put there by myself. The future of this idea is not bright but unwanted. I would expect you to contact publishers and get their prior approval before you start inserting ads.

Also, there is the issue of types of ads. Many websites are very selective about the ads that appear and would not appreciate foreign ads on their space.

Your idea has no benefit to publishers as they receive nothing but headaches from it.



------------------
Webmaster
http://server.com

xuniverse
06-21-2001, 01:40 PM
i have to agree with red...

I take pride in stating that my site is ad-free except for a co-branded search box. I REALLY do not find it cool that your banking in on the success of others for your money. I do not know about legal issues or anything but Im sure somewhere down the line you may find your self in some trouble.

suresk
06-21-2001, 02:00 PM
I must admit it is an innovative and unique idea, but there is one problem - that space isn't AdAvailable's to sell.

This is like hijacking a TV Signal then pasting your ads in the middle of a show.

If it starts getting used, I'm sure someone will sue them. You simply take content others have worked hard to create, then slap your own ads on it and give nothing to the content provider.

Kinda like Microsoft's Smart Tags http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif



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xuniverse
06-21-2001, 02:02 PM
i personally think this is worse then smart tags cuz this guy is putting FULL banners on our site...

this idea (even tho its inovative) will not get far. Just think what yahoo or lycos or aol would do if they had ads put on their site... they would sue for billions...

ic: i would stop before its too late... those guys can afford 1,000,000 court fees,.. you cant.

icmedia
06-21-2001, 02:05 PM
This is a small test and not a lot of people have the software.

If publishers do not have this software on their computers it will not be on their websites for them. There are other companies out there that provide you with free services to check weather, search for music. You can use those services or you can uninstall them. It is your choice as a computer owner. But if you choose to use those free services the software that you download to use those services will pop up ads on your computer every 60 minutes or every 30 minutes and if you surfing the web and you are on url.com and you see a pop up ad, this pop up ad might came from url.com or from that software. Do you think the creators of this software should have any problems with the publisher of url.com?

Some surfers don't like banner ads and most surfers hate pop up ads.

icmedia
06-21-2001, 02:16 PM
How about companies that produce software that gets rid of banners and pop up ads on websites? If the publisher chose to put the banner on his website this is his right, because this is his website. Then some company releases the software and now instead of making $1000 a month, the publisher is making $500.

This is all about the surfer and what they choose to do. If you have a website you are in control of that website and this is as far as it goes. If you are a surfer then you are in control of how you view certain things. If you do not want ads you download the software that gets rid of ads and otherwise.

Guava
06-21-2001, 02:52 PM
The ad-blocking software is the same as "black boxes" for cable. They don't want to pay the fee.In this case that fee would be to view ads. I'm waiting for some companies to come out with some way of effectively combatting ad-blocking software. Currently it's small and not a big deal but it could grow into something large.

------------------
Guava
NetMongol.com Free E-Mail @YourDomain.com (http://www.netmongol.com?geek)
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Lil_Red
06-21-2001, 03:12 PM
Changed mind about comments - admin please delete this post.

Thanks.


[This message has been edited by Lil_Red (edited 06-21-2001).]

EMINEM79
06-21-2001, 03:49 PM
This is like a slap in the face to webmasters.



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EMINEM79
06-21-2001, 03:51 PM
Xuniverse: thats what I was saying, I hope when some of the big dot coms find out about this they sue ic media.



------------------
http://www.HumorHaven.com - Funny Pictures and Flash Cartoons!

http://www.PlatinumJokes.com - The Best, Funniest Jokes On The Net!!

EMINEM79
06-21-2001, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by icmedia:
Hello,

I just got an email from Oneaws Pers that you wanted my opinion on this.

I am very glad you did. AdAvailable.com is a company that I helped to found. I think it is a great technology and a great idea. IconPrizes.com is a company that uses the technology of AdAvailable.com.

It is a very new and unique idea and I was very interested to see what it can do. Advertising industry is always looking for ways to upgrade itself. Banner ads, sky banner ads, pop up ads. Why not go father and create another style in the advertising industry and place banners directly on websites you go to.

Just think about it. You can advertise on any website and directly target the consumer. At this time the targeting abilities do not work so it is basically RON. But I think this technology has a very bright future.

Please email me any questions you might have. I am very interested to hear what you think.

Thank you,
Vladimir

yeah thats a great idea, put ads on websites you do not own, have permission and not even share some of the money with the site owner.

this is bs.



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http://www.HumorHaven.com - Funny Pictures and Flash Cartoons!

http://www.PlatinumJokes.com - The Best, Funniest Jokes On The Net!!

Steve_S
06-21-2001, 04:33 PM
Hello icmedia,

Welcome to the BB and Forum,

The legal issue which will arise (not if) is weather "you" can alter the copywrited contents of this BB and the rest of GV without my prior permission. Further defined to include the visitor experience and exactly what I and not "you" wish for my visitors to see.

The legal issue has nothing to do nor would it ever be germaine to the issue with respect to consumer demand for the product. After all, their is lots of demand for products like drugs but the sellers of same go to jail because they broke the law when they sold cocaine.

What is likely to happen in my view would be that a very aggressive member of the bar will paint a wide and lethal brush with all of the concerned parties and thus sue all of the following folks:

1) "You" the author, your company, and all the other firms which license your technology
2) All the advertisers who use this service as a vehickle to push their adverts into my site and violate my copywrite
3) The ISP who provides the connection
4) All the hosts involved with each and every website
(5)The consumer/surfer who is using the product which violates my copywrite and their ISP.

The suit would also seek monetary damages for loss of revenue and mental anguish.

Then it would be up to the courts to render a decision. My post is a try at digesting what my attorney just told me.

I'm pretty sure that some of the large and small networks like Burst and DoubleClick would have other "objections" to this procedure but can't speak for them. Since they "lurk" or our members perhaps they can offer their own views on either side of the issue.

------------------
Steve_S
Administrator/Owner/Webmaster/Tribal Chief/Janitor
Read what our Members think of geek/talk. (http://www.geekvillage.com/geek_talk_forums_testimonials.html)
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[This message has been edited by Steve_S (edited 06-21-2001).]

xuniverse
06-21-2001, 04:39 PM
well i think steve summed it all up for you http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

Rhea
06-21-2001, 07:07 PM
Red Queen Hypothesis. Biology. Predator/prey relationships. Assuming that both the predator and the prey can adapt in a timely fashion, neither wins. Stalemate.

As publishers how do we adapt to this type of assault on our domains? Do we have to rely on the legal system, or is there a technical alternative?

One option is to refer any complaints from our visitors to the author of this (intriguing but pretty vile) predatory strategy.

Vlad, if we were to put the onus back on you, how would you feel about your Hopeful Monster then? While I appreciate your enthusiasm for figuring out HOW to do what you've done, have you considered the ethics involved?


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Rhea
www.yuckles.com
www.bigdancelist.com

malis
06-21-2001, 07:19 PM
I've always questioned the ethics of exit pop-ups and delayed pop-ups as well. One major point of a delayed pop-up is that the ad is not associated with the site that spawned it - pretty slimey if you ask me, but this is taking it up another level.

A few things not mentioned concerned me from the original post, and I'd be curious for a response.

First, the idea that you download a program, delete it, yet something remains that affects your computer:

"If you uninstall IconPrizes, mediasrv is not deleted from your computer. It is also setup to run on startup of Windows."

Second, what's up with this?:

"IconPrizes is registered to Vladimir Khomenko of Montgomery Village in Maryland USA, who was terminated by BannersGoMLM for "Falsifying impressions at site and falsifying application information.""

I'm not liking the smell around here...



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Rick
Webtowns.org (http://www.webtowns.org/Webmaster_Resources/Advertisement_Services/) - Ad services - listed, rated, reviewed!

EMINEM79
06-21-2001, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by Rhea:
As publishers how do we adapt to this type of assault on our domains? Do we have to rely on the legal system, or is there a technical alternative?


I was thinking the same thing, Next your probably gonna hear vlad say what we should put on our website to protect it from their ads showing on it. How stupid is that.


Dave


------------------
http://www.HumorHaven.com - Funny Pictures and Flash Cartoons!

http://www.PlatinumJokes.com - The Best, Funniest Jokes On The Net!!

[This message has been edited by EMINEM79 (edited 06-21-2001).]

hobojoe
06-21-2001, 07:37 PM
Some services on the internet insert their own banners into the top of web pages. These in my opinion have the right to do so as they are providing the surfer with a service (ie. anonymous surfing).

However, this program doesn't seem to do anything for the visitor at all except clutter the page with more ads. Therefore, this company must be hoping that either, many people don't notice the extra ads, or that they won't be able to figure out how to get rid of the program, as it is left behind from a previous program and run on startup. That is pretty cheesy to me.

xuniverse
06-21-2001, 08:40 PM
im assuming your talking about anonymizer.com... they could also be considered doing the same thing BUT its not on such a wide scale... people only use anonymizer.com when they're @ work or other places.. and prolly only use it for less then 10% of their surfing.

AdAvailable can be included into ANY program that we use/have... this could go main-stream if there are greedy software writers with no other form of income from their product. But again, I PERSONALLY don't care because I'll just let yahoo handle vlad.

Vlad: hope you have some extra cash http://geekvillage.com/ubb/wink.gif

JonPKibble
06-21-2001, 11:11 PM
Notice how Vlad isn't mentioning anything about the falsifying banners.

EMINEM79
06-21-2001, 11:59 PM
Hmmm... No one has to comment on this on how it puts ads on your website without your permission... wierd.

------------------
http://www.HumorHaven.com - Funny Pictures and Flash Cartoons!

http://www.PlatinumJokes.com - The Best, Funniest Jokes On The Net!!

Dave-AHFB
06-22-2001, 05:34 AM
I asked him about this on this thread http://geekvillage.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/006521.html

It should give you a little more insight to his honesty.

Dave

BrianClark
06-22-2001, 06:01 AM
Actually, I'm not too worried about this, because not only are they going to sued, there's already a case precidence out there sufficient to turn this into a summary judgement case (ie, no trial).

How many of you remember TotalNews? They were a link aggregator, sending people on to news stories at other site. What does that have in common with this case? Oh, they used to slap a frame on the top with their own ad -- and it was that "framing with ad" that got them sued by a broad collection of media publishers, who won.

The key was the modification of copyrighted content without permission -- a violation of copyright law. The fact that it was done for "commercial gain" made it aggrevated copyright infringement with commercial intent, which carries even stiffer penalties.

It's that same case that made all of the other "free services" you talk about, ICMedia, go with integrated toolbars outside the browser display space, or pop-ups in separate windows. Both of those techniques might be irritating to users, but they aren't violations of copyright law.

So, I wouldn't let this bother anyone too much. Like any illegal and illicit activity on the Internet, you should just ignore it for the time being (after all, railing against will just help them sell more ads) and if somehow they manage to gain enough attention to be a real thorn, a flurry of lawsuits will follow and this company will go away.

Oh, BTW -- just because you are the first to do something doesn't make it innovative. The technology here is really simple, but smart businesses would never develop it because of the legal risks associated. So, in this case, you're first only because you are the least ethical, not the because you are the most innovative.

Cheers,


Brian Clark
Producer, ReveNews.com http://www.revenews.com

cashcash
06-22-2001, 06:24 AM
Yeah, this is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I'd be ****** off if someone put banners on my site that I didn't approve.

intellected
06-23-2001, 05:36 PM
I think this is a great idea, just like the "smartlinks". Satanically evil, yes, but definetly great - just like the punch-the-monkey banner.

Dave-AHFB
09-05-2001, 08:19 AM
bump...maybe this should be moved to the theftware forum

D

clay
09-05-2001, 08:49 AM
I can't believe he even tried to make it look good. Have to question the intelligence in that. Yeah, i will post and convince the people i steal from that it's a good idea. No surprises here that no one thought it was a good idea. I think brian pretty much summed it up.

If worse comes to worse, Someone can make a little program that will look and remove such programs. Wouldn't be very hard really, just a matter of researching the current thief programs to see what it's done. And remember, since the surfer downloads and installs he must want it, so it would be legal lol. I don't think it would ever get that bad, but believe me when I say that people won't let this go on forever(legally or not). It's not too hard to write mods and other programs to counter these. I can think of so many fun things mods could do to them. Would love to see the tables turned.

I think the legal route will work on this one though.

ezclan
09-05-2001, 08:58 AM
I am confused.. exactly what is the difference between a paid to surf bar like Spedia or AllAdvantage... and this?

Is it the 'stealth' nature of the technology? ie, the user may get it installed without his knowledge with no clear way to turn it off? Is that even the case?

Or is it the fact the ad is position a few inches above the bottom of the page, ie in the middle of your content?

ihelpyou
09-05-2001, 09:03 AM
I see Vlidamirmybutt kind of made a brief appearance here to shoot off about his "spy" software that does NOT uninstall, then made a quick exit after the forum members exposed some of his unethical deeds?

Quite typical of the mindset of ALL these type software programs. NO regard for the webmaster/website.

Vlad, you could not possibly build your OWN web site with your OWN content, so you resort to Stealing the content of others.

Very good business plan.

OC
09-05-2001, 10:26 AM
Sadly, I don't think any big names will take them into court. They'd just do with mediasrv.exe what Ezula started doing, blocking themselves from putting ads on the big boys' sites. Funny, I smell another organized movement against scumware a'coming.

Actually, Vladimir claims to be sooo incredibly busy that he can't bother with the forums (I e-mailed him from a hotmail account a while back), even if he needs to be here to defend himself. Major tactical error. :p

Steve_S
09-05-2001, 03:19 PM
Vladimir/icmedia

Lets see if we can approach this issue from another perspective given the fact that this thread started back in 6/01.

1) Why not use your talents as a programmer and join "our side" to fight TheftWare in an appropriate manner? Please consider this post my invitation to join. Only support our side.

You could write the code which defeats KaZaA, eZula, Gator, and any company and or individual which profits from this relationship with respect to their TopText/overlay technology. If we did this with a client side app I'm pretty sure we could all round up enough folks to entice the user to download it. On the server side would be another way for you to do this. If this interest you, please contact me via:

http://www.stopscum.com/contact_us.htm

Their is a business model in this proposal. Study www.lavasoftusa.com

2) If this doesn't strike your fancy I would be interested to know:

- Which advertisers are using your app?
- which networks and or applications are using your app?
- have you written similar code for other companys on an independent contract basis? If so, who?
- what are your current reasons for ingaging in this practice? This assumes you are still doing this. Perhaps you stoped. If so, please let us know.

safesys
09-06-2001, 12:19 PM
By installing software onto a computer that uses the users bandwidth to insert banners that are not a micropayment to web site owners they have effectively created a trojan.

Might be worth while educating internet users about this trojan, telling them how to check if it has "infected" their computer, how to remove it and who to sue.

This is, of course, in addition to the infrginement of copyright that the software is making.

Click Here!