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sterlingbeck
11-07-2000, 02:06 PM
Since this obviously applies directly to the US economy, and thus effects every one of us...Who's gonna win?
I'm voting for Bush/Cheney.
Lower taxes, decent moral values.
You guys?

------------------
Sterling Beck
23d Networks

SearchTraffic
11-07-2000, 02:15 PM
Bush 49%
Gore 47%
Others 3%

I think the internet economy is going to be just fine no matter who is elected.

The strong and smart will get larger and more profitable. The weak business plans will continue to dissapear...as will the companies employing 1000 persons to do the work of 100.

---------------------------------
Moving to Chat area... you know better Sterling! http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Aaron Dragushan (edited 11-07-2000).]

Doc
11-07-2000, 02:56 PM
I'm going with 320ish electoral votes for Bush.
(that means he wins, for you foreign webmasters http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif )

OC
11-07-2000, 08:31 PM
As of right now (around 11AM eastern time), the electoral votes are neck and neck. So many twists and turns tonight. I am praying the Florida eventually turns to Bush, causing him to win the election.

Twenty five votes at stake in Florida, 25 votes first declared for Gore but now the absentee ballots have been taken into consideration. Florida has a decent history of the media claiming something, then all of the absentee ballots come into play and trash the studios. It happenned for their last senator, Connie Mack, as well as others. Florida's voting history also seems to suggest most absentee ballots are in fact Republican.

Morals, values, and honesty are what's at stake. And no (before all of you liberals respond), I don't care if GWBush was arrested for DUI charges 24 years ago. http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

OC

Toefur
11-07-2000, 09:49 PM
BUSH IS THE DEVIL!!

It's true!

Seriously, I really can't stand bush.
I really think he will be bad for america, not only within America, but around the whole world.

I wish Nader would win. But that aint gonna happen. So I dont like Gore, but way better than bush. He knows what he;s doing at least. Doesnt take 2 hours off for lunch to play computer games in his 9-5 day. Heh.

When do we find out whose gonna win?
Its almost 1am on the east coast of america, I believe. They dont know yet, do they?

And anyway. Bush is a crackhead.

Doc
11-07-2000, 11:44 PM
what a bunch of nasty words!! http://geekvillage.com/ubb/frown.gif

now is that anyway to talk about THE PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES!!

VIVA BUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!

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its 2:45 eastern time, election has been called for Bush!!! BYE BYE GORE!!!

Toefur
11-08-2000, 02:39 AM
Even more reason to say even worse things about him... heehee.

I saw it on the news about 3 hours ago. Oh, my heart broke into a million pieces in the realisation of what has happened.

WHY DID YOU AMERICANS VOTE FOR BUSH!??!!?

*tears*

Doc
11-08-2000, 06:50 AM
the question also goes to you....why, as a foreigner, shouldn't we have voted for Bush?

kris
11-08-2000, 06:59 AM
Bush is not the president yet. Gore will win the popular vote for sure. It all comes down to Florida. That Jeb Bush tried to confuse people with ballets and it worked with thousands voting for Buchanan instead of Gore.. That dirty little...

Doc
11-08-2000, 09:21 AM
the popular vote is irrelevant... http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

and Jeb Bush doesn't design the ballots...to call him into it is irrational...

about confusing voters: THE BALLOT HAD AN ARROW FROM THE NAME OF THE CANDIDATE TO THE HOLE THAT SHOULD BE PUNCHED OR FILLED....how can that be confusing!?!?

if someone isn't cognizant enough to follow directions...THEY SHOULDN'T BE VOTING ANYWAY!

OC
11-08-2000, 10:31 AM
===Warning: This message contains me venting some steam from staying up until 5AM only to have Gore take back his concession.===

It's around 1PM (eastern time) in the US, and it all hangs on the too-close-to-call Florida (which was already called for Gore AND Bush once, and Bush has already been projected the President last night but that has been retracted). They have an estimate that we will know who wins the real tally in Florida by Thursday, but CBS News says it can go into the weekend.

Politics tend to show us how old and mature you really are. http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif Are some of you just regurgitating what your parents have said or really making your own unbiased decisions?

===Section addressed to Toefur===
Thank you for taking such a reasoned, rational approach to telling us why "BUSH IS THE DEVIL!!" and "is a crackhead". http://geekvillage.com/ubb/frown.gif Please feel free to reiterate any of those previous statements.

1. I am amazed at the strong, backless stands you have about politicians you are have not been exposed to 24 hours a day like Americans have. I seriously doubt you have seen all of the first debate, in which Al Gore acted outrageously and lied through his teeth. In fact, several major newspapers around America poked at him with front-page headlines like: "Liar, Liar". What about the third debate in which Al Gore (though somewhat more prepared in the debate) got out of his chair agressively and stood 6 inches away from Bush while he was talking?

2. Al Gore supports partial-birth abortion. This means the head of the baby is delivered, their fragile and partially-undeveloped skull is punctured, and the brains are "******" or vacuumed out. After this process the dead, limp body of the baby is delivered. This is pure, legalized murder (regular early-term abortion is also murder, IMHO) and partial-birth abortion is happening in the United States of America today. Is it right with anyone?
Not mentioning his lies and deceitfulness, this issue alone makes Al Gore supremely "devilish."


===Section addressed to Kris===
When I read this: "That Jeb Bush tried to confuse people with ballets and it worked with thousands voting for Buchanan instead of Gore.. That dirty little..." I laughed at your completely inane rubbish.

I suggest you read up a bit before you post something like that.

1. Here is what happenned: AP & Voter News Service both had faulty exit polls which made the networks project for Gore too early. Jeb Bush detested these results and brought the absentee ballots and the fact that votes were still being tallied into question. So early Gore projections were based on faulty exit polls and announced when votes were still being counted.

2. Jeb Bush doesn't have anything to do with ballots. There is an elections branch in Florida and a supervisor of elections for every county in Florida.

3. I myself live in one of the counties mentioned of having ballot problems. I myself voted on one of those "problem" ballots. Two senior citizens approached my county's election supervisor to say that the candidate Pat Buchanan (sp?) and the candidate Al Gore were too close together and made them vote for Pat Buchanan. This is absurd. The candidates were clearly and boldly marked in alphabetical order on two pages. George Bush was just as close to Pat Buchanan as Al Gore was. If someone was confused from Al to Pat, then someone could have just as easily been confused from George to Pat. Now some people want those who were confused to be able to re-vote, this is absurd beyond recognition. The funniest thing of all is that the ballot stated if you accidentally vote for someone you do not want to then return the ballot paper (we use ballot papers and punching-out next to your candidate) for a new one. These democrat seniors admitted they new they had made the mistake but turned in the ballot anyways.

4. As explained above, the ballot mistakes are blown out of proportion by the Democrats. Republicans should be blowing the fact that several ballot boxes were missing until police found them last night.

Hope this helps,
OC


[This message has been edited by OC (edited 11-08-2000).]

sterlingbeck
11-08-2000, 02:39 PM
Amen OC,
Abortion is murder, and I'm glad Bush won.
I won $10 on the side ;-)

------------------
Sterling Beck
23d Networks

OC
11-08-2000, 03:47 PM
I won $10 on the side ;-)LOL! Putting in bets for the future of your country and the world... real nice. http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

m3rcury
11-09-2000, 04:08 PM
With all this talk of recounts, and revoting, and "improper ballots".... i'm getting very annoyed. What most people fail to recognise is that HAVING A REVOTE IS NOT ONLY ILLEGAL, BUT ALSO UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

In my opinion, Gore should just accept that he lost and stop handcounting votes and looking for "problems." Not to say that the recounts and such are his doing, necessarily, but still the fact is HE LOST!

---------------
Shane
late webmaster :P

Doc
11-09-2000, 08:03 PM
EXACTLY!

he lost, but they're doing their darndest to cheat their way into office.... http://geekvillage.com/ubb/frown.gif

hobbnet
11-09-2000, 09:36 PM
First of all, I did not vote for either Bush or Gore. I personally am a "conservative democrat" so if a gun was put to my head and demanded to choose either Gore or Bush I would probably choose Gore only because he is also a democrat. I didn't really do my research before this election regarding the two "main" candidates. If it hadn't been for Nader's voice being drowned out due to the fact that his party is neither democrat or republican I wouldn't have voted in the presidential elections at all. I know some people are upset that Nader "stole" votes from gore but as a resident of California I was pretty confident that Gore would win the electoral votes in CA so I voted Nader just in hopes that other parties may get a better voice in future elections. And anyways, criticizing people because of who they vote for is one of the most ignorant things in my opinion. Our country is based upon free choice. If everyone chooses what they believe will be best for them as an individual then hopefully the best possible thing will happen for the majority. I hate feeling self conscious about who I vote for. It's really none of your business. http://geekvillage.com/ubb/wink.gif

OK, now here are just a couple of comments for OC.

Like I said I didn't research the candidates very much so I can neither prove or disprove your statement on Gore and his beliefs on abortion. But, I do know that Bush is the governor of Texas. Now, to my knowledge Texas has the highest rate of capital punishment. I consider capital punishment is murder. I believe capital punishment is a crime. As children we were all taught "two wrongs don't make a right". Why is murder punished with murder? And about the elderly people who knew they voted for the wrong person yet they still turned in the ballots I can totally empathize. I mean, if I voted for the wrong person or was confused by the ballot I would feel extremely embarassed. And this embarrasment would be because I would be afraid people would think I was not "cognizant". Thus leading many people to just turn in the ballots, without correcting them, in an attempt save face. When the truth is that the voters are not at fault, they were just not properly informed.

About the floridian ballots:
I saw the ballots on TV and I admit they don't look too confusing. They are, though, definitely a lot more confusing than the ballot I used over here in California. And to the defense of people who aren't "cognizant enough to follow directions...THEY SHOULDN'T BE VOTING ANYWAY!" I was watching C-Span and they were having multiple call-ins from educated people (people with college degrees) who made this mistake. I believe someone with a college degree is able enough to vote. In my opinion voting is a huge responsibility of American Citizens. I mean, it can have a HUGE impact on our lives. When I vote I am usually nervous and quite honestly distracted by my nervousness/anxiety. Maybe the people who made these mistakes have similar feelings about voting and made an honest mistake. I mean, we aren't all perfect. People make mistakes! (take politicians for an example) Also to say some American Citizens shouldn't vote is a very rude statement in my opion. Thousands of people died to give every american citizen the right to vote. Regardless of a citizen's intelligence they still represent our country. Voting for a politician is electing a person to represent YOU (intelligent or not) in our government.

Anyways, that are some of my disjointed thoughts...This has definitely been interesting and thought invoking.

-Wade

[This message has been edited by hobbnet (edited 11-09-2000).]

Doc
11-09-2000, 10:11 PM
First, I respect your right to have an opinion, but I do find fault with your logic.

1) Capital Punishment - you refer to it as murder?

Our society is based upon a simple premise. People forfeit some of their rights (by this I mean ability to do whatever they like) so that a stronger entity, government, can protect them from having their rights infringed upon by others. In exchange for forfeiting these rights, people are expected to adhere to set of rules (laws). The basic idea behind the laws in our country is that people should be allowed to do whatsoever they wish so long as it does not infringe upon the rights of another person or persons.

A crime is what occurs when an individual violates a law and therefore, infringes upon the rights of another.

Now back to the society issue. When an individual commits a crime, he or she forfeits the remainder of their rights. The degree to which their rights are forfeit depends upon the degree to which they infringed upon the rights of others. Now when a person commits murder, he or she has in effect, not only infringed upon the rights of another, but taken them away in their entirety. What is fair punishment? That they should forfeit all their rights, the most prized of which is their right to live.

Now tell me something, if someone slaughters your family on a whim, you mean to tell me you would still feel this to be unfair?

2) The ballots.

You questioned my comments and referred to them as rude. Its your opinion. It also happens to be illogical.

Saying that everyone has a right to vote is ignorant. Even our system recognizes this. To vote, an individual must be able to follow the directions. If he or she cannot do this, our system proclaims that his or her vote shall be nullified.

You misunderstand our democracy. As I stated in an earlier post, our forefathers did not believe that everyone should vote, but that they should have the opportunity. Think about this.

If a person is unable to vote in the proper manner because he or she is unable to follow simple directions, ARROWS, or NUMBERS, it means that their vote is meaningless. Similarly, if someone votes hastily, without checking to see if they voted properly, they are not treating their right to vote with the gravity and reverence it deserves.

Personally, I believe that there should be a limit to the amount of stupidity we tolerate. While I recognize that setting an arbitrary level of stupidity is improper, I would like to draw your attention back to election laws.

Evidently, the men and women who wrote those laws agreed with me for they made those laws to nullify the votes of those who didn't follow procedure. In other words, those who are UNABLE (in my words STUPID) to follow directions shall have their votes cast out.

Also, you mention that many died so that ALL could vote. This sounds good in speeches but simply isn't true. There are laws limiting the age at which citizens may vote. You may counter that all people eventually reach a legal age and may vote. This is true. What I am saying is NOT that stupid people should be denied voting rights, but THAT THEY SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO VOTE UNTIL THEY HAVE THE AMOUNT OF INTELLIGENCE NECESSARY TO CAST THEIR BALLOTS IN A MANNER WHICH ADHERES TO THE LAW.


[This message has been edited by Doc (edited 11-09-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Doc (edited 11-09-2000).]

Jarusa
11-09-2000, 10:58 PM
I'm sorry DOC but I could not let this one go. You say,

What I am saying is NOT that stupid people should be denied voting rights, but THAT THEY SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO VOTE UNTIL THEY HAVE THE AMOUNT OF INTELLIGENCE NECESSARY TO CAST THEIR BALLOTS IN A MANNER WHICH ADHERES TO THE LAW.

Within one sentence you have contradicted yourself.

You directly state in the second half of the sentence (in caps no less) that voters should be denied the right to vote until they pass some 'intelligence' test, i.e. the stupid should by law be denied the right to vote.

Smells like fascism to me. http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

Doc
11-09-2000, 11:12 PM
WRONG!

I did NOT contradict myself. I did not say they should take an intellignece test. What I said was that having directions to follow such as what bubble to fill in or hole to punch, IS the form of intelligence test agreed upon by society as the requirement for the right to vote. That is VASTLY different.

Jarusa
11-09-2000, 11:17 PM
Excuse me but doesn't

SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO VOTE

mean that someone is prevented from the voting process.

hobbnet
11-10-2000, 01:12 AM
In response:
1) Just because someone commits a crime it does not mean they forfeit all of their rights. A criminal still has rights...Many amendments within the United States Constitution touch on these rights. One of them is that a criminal shall not receive cruel and unusual punishment. Murder is just about the cruelest thing I can think of. Also, I believe that the purpose of punishment is to reform them and stop them from committing wrong again. Not to stop them as a whole, i.e. death. Now, I know that some people are so unstable (unstable is an understatement) that our justice system could never allow them back into our society. But, most definitely these unstable people have been this way their whole lives due to possibly genetic issues or some sort of abuse early on in their lives. In other words, they had no control over it, it's not their fault. So if it's not their fault why should they be killed? Now, I know I am going to step on a lot of toes here but...You made it obvious you are not pro-choice. Why aren't you pro-choice? Is it because its not the babies fault their parents messed up? Well its not the unstable person's fault either. And for the other people who commit murder, whose parents are not to blame, these are the people that can be reformed. And then there are those people who are put to death leaving their family to find out they were in fact innocent of their crimes. It enrages me to think that innocent men have been put to death by our justice system.

And if someone slaughtered my family I would not wish their murderer put to death. I mean, I couldn't even fathom the pain/anger/sadness I would experience from it but I know that I would not want their murderer put to death. What would be the point in that? If I experienced so much pain from my family's death why would I want another person to die the same way?

2) Saying every american citizen has the right to vote isn't ignorant. With some exceptions every american citizen does have the right to vote. (See constitution) Sorry I didn't mention how minors do not have the right to vote earlier, I figured that was implied. But the reason why saying people died for our democracy sounds good in a speech is because it is true. Take the Revolutionary war, Civil war, World War I and World War II. All these wars had elements of upholding democracy and/or human rights.
And to say that our forefathers didn't intend for everyone to have the right to vote you are 100% correct. But, thankfully there now is woman's suffrage among other rights. Our country eventually learned that being a white male didn't mean you were better. I assure you the women you refer to who "wrote those laws" had nothing to do with our "forefathers (who) did not believe that everyone should vote". On a less serious note, just because someone doesn't understand how to fill out a form (or voter's pamphlet) it doesn't mean they are stupid and unsuitable for voting. I mean I think I should have the right to vote yet I can't even correctly fill out a damned Network Solutions Domain Transfer form. http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

I stand behind what I say and have said, I do not find it to be "illogical" and if you find it illogical you don't "respect my right to have an opinion".

Always happy to be the devil's advocate! http://geekvillage.com/ubb/wink.gif

-Wade

[This message has been edited by hobbnet (edited 11-10-2000).]

hobbnet
11-10-2000, 01:29 AM
Oh, and in all seriousness could you point me in the direction to the law regarding "THE AMOUNT OF INTELLIGENCE NECESSARY TO CAST THEIR BALLOTS IN A MANNER WHICH ADHERES TO THE LAW" I have never heard of a modern day law mandating intelligence. I am interested in seeing it.

-Wade

Doc
11-10-2000, 08:38 AM
i'm gonna ignore the majority of your response hobbnet, I just don't have the time to type a rebuttal... http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

what i will do is address two statements you made, one of which is similar to a statement made by jamiejulie.

1) JamieJulie said something about |should not be allowed to vote| - doesn't this imply an intelligence test?

What I said was that people should not be allowed to vote unless they can follow the law, a law which says that ballots must be cast properly. THIS LAW IS WHAT I AM REFERING TO WHEN I MENTION A BUILT IN INTELLIGENCE TEST! Its already there. So for you to argue that I'm a "fascist" is inane. Obviously the system agrees with me, BECAUSE THESE LAWS ALREADY EXIST AND ARE ACCEPTED BY SOCIETY! The point is that I think people should have the capacity to properly use a ballot. The law agrees with me. If someone doesn't fill the ballot out correctly, their vote is not counted. (note that this is the polite way of saying IF SOMEONE IS TOO STUPID TO FILL IT OUT THE RIGHT WAY, WE WON'T COUNT THE DARN THING!)

JAMIEJULIE- taking a snippit from my post and trying to twist its meaning doesn't change the actual post I left.

HOBBNET - Read the above, the laws governing ballot casting are in fact
===the law regarding "THE AMOUNT OF INTELLIGENCE NECESSARY TO CAST THEIR BALLOTS IN A MANNER WHICH ADHERES TO THE LAW"===


2)====I stand behind what I say and have said, I do not find it to be "illogical" and if you find it illogical you don't "respect my right to have an opinion".====

Sorry, but that's not right either. I can believe that your opinion is illogical and at the same time respect your right to have it. Respecting your right to have an opinion does NOT mean I agree with it. It simply means that I understand you have a right to your belief, although it differs from my own.


We're heading off subject and actually arguing more about diction and intended meaning than the Gore & Bush situation. http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

oh and JamieJulie, when hurling an insult such as "facism" at me, make sure you fully understand what it is.

facism is defined ---as A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. ---


Now if you can conclude that I'm a fascist from my remarks, you might wish to seek a pyschological evaluation. http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif http://geekvillage.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

SearchTraffic
11-10-2000, 02:12 PM
Yikes.

OC
11-10-2000, 02:59 PM
Yikes! <<<about sums it all up, SearchTraff.

Okay, let's take a breather.
Hi Wade, long-time no chat. How's the roller coaster book thing going?

I don't feel like typing for a few hours, so I won't be responding entirely.

Wade: No it is NOT and SHOULD NOT be the baby's fault that the parents messed up! It is never the baby's fault. That's exactly why the baby should NOT be killed. There's a solution so the parent who messed up doesn't have to keep their baby: adoption clear and simple.

I have some issues with capital punishment as well, but I prioritize. Thousands upon thousands of babies are killed everyday (I presume several hundred to a thousand of those a partial-birth) while a few are murdered daily for doing a crime. I choose my battles.

BTW, It doesn't make sense to convince me that abortion is all right by saying that other innocent people are being murdered daily. How does that make the killing of thousands of lives okay?

I agree with everyone on this one: just because someone doesn't understand how to fill out a form (or voter's pamphlet) it doesn't mean they are stupid and unsuitable for voting. Just because someone is too prideful to say "I accidentally voted wrong" and bring their ballot back to the front desk to have it shredded in order to get a new one DOESN'T mean my county should re-vote. Again, I say, this is absurd. Now the tacky Rev. Jesse Jackson (self-proclaimed black leader who has absolutely no taste and sticks his nose everywhere, including the middle east) held rallies here.

What kind of country is this exactly?!?

A country where a group can rally and scream and yell and jump and parade to deceitfully finagle their man into the Whitehouse? Al Gore should be a man and call a cease and desist.

Let's just say the ballots WERE confusing (which they definately were not), then I could argue the following:
-I believe the ballots said if you make a mistake, tell one of the voter's assistance volunteers. Because the thousand+ people knew they were making a mistake, they did indeed intentionally vote for Pat Buchanan.
-A confusing ballot is no reason to have everyone in my county re-vote. That is not constitutional in Florida. A re-vote can only be constitutional in the State of Florida if they can prove the ballot did not go through the state's guidelines and procedures of acceptance.

I'll leave you guys with a sad note: right now there are at least 4 times the amount of people protesting and filing complaints that they voted incorrectly than there were who actually voted for Buchanan.

-OC
-whom recently became an American citizen

Jarusa
11-10-2000, 03:43 PM
DOC,

I respect your obvious intelligence, and conviction in what you believe in, but you must learn to take small criticisms on the chin a little better.

"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." Socrates

My apologies to the geekvillage for inadvertantly taking us so off-topic.

hobbnet
11-10-2000, 06:47 PM
Why should Al Gore stop a recount in Florida if BY LAW florida must have a recount when it is this close of a vote. Especially since now Bush is only ahead by a mere few hundred votes. (that isn't very much).

And I was not trying to equivicate capitol punishment with abortion. I was just attempting to dismantle someone's arguement that Gore was a bad man because he supported abortion. I was just giving the flipside of the arguement that Bush supports murder too.

And I don't find it sad that more 4 times more people are protesting than the amount of people who voted for Buchanan. The people who are protesting believe what happened to themselves or others is unfair. Therefore, they are protesting. (many times people have protested for/against things that did not directly affected them)

-Wade

Doc
11-10-2000, 07:28 PM
well, the recount is ok...the first time...requesting hand counts and FILING LAWSUITS is toooo much.

(i'm keeping this short and sweet)

http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

OC
11-11-2000, 11:41 AM
I just wrote a long reply and my browser crashed, so this one will be short.

1. Wade, stop putting words in my mouth and contorting everything I say. Florida law states if a vote has a difference of or less than 0.5% then a re-count is mandatory. I agree. Not re-counting is unfair and unconstitutional. Al Gore should be a man and call off his supporters no matter what the result. Instead, he's lying low letting them do the dirty work.

2. On abortion/capital punishment, the keyword I used was prioritize. If I had to choose between some one who supports the murder of 50 inmates a year (that's just a guess, it's probably somewhere around 15) or someone who supports the murder of tens or hundreds of thousands of babies a year, I would choose Bush.

3. I certainly meant to emphasis on filing thousands of frivolous (sp?) voter complaints--not the protests--but you contorted me out to look like the bad guy anyways. I don't have a problem with protests! I feel it's sad you don't even wince at the fact that thousands of people filed false complaints to the supervisor of elections in my county, just to finagle their man in deceitfully.

4. I've already told you why I'm pro-life, so why don't you tell me why you are essentially anti-life? It's your turn. http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

OC
--happy he's posting anonymously on these boards and can delete them later. http://geekvillage.com/ubb/tongue.gif

Steve_S
11-11-2000, 03:06 PM
Some thoughts in no particular order http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

1) When the state of Florida "certifies" their results, that should be THE END of this posturing and actions by both sides. This requires that the absentee ballots be counted and that won't happen till the end of next week.

2) The winner should be gracious and try to unite both parties and reassure the nation and the world that the USA is back on track.

3) The looser should do the very same thing as the winner.

4) I would like to see both men standing next to each other when this happens.

5) Combine the current "recount" issues plus Trent Lot's horrible statement and First Lady's Hillaries horrible recount to Lot's statement and you have a very very serious issue. Devisive in nature, cripling to any meaninfull progress in Congress and the House as well as the Presidency and "the nation".

Just my thoughts http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

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hobbnet
11-12-2000, 12:11 AM
I'm obviously not anti-life (talk about contortion of words!) I hate capital punishment and I am pro-choice. (we need not get in a Roe vs. Wade arguement)

-Wade

MagicMan
11-14-2000, 01:21 PM
After some time away for another move, this one being the last (unless of course I am elected President), I wanted to weigh in with my opinion. Today's ruling by a judge in Florida that the vote must be certified as per state law calls a lot of things into question. I don't see how at this point either man can or will have an effective term as President. The legal manuevering will more than likely continue for quite a while, and what happens if one candidate is declared the winner and 6 months from now a court says "No, the other person won"? I don't have the answer....Do you???? Is a complete country re-vote necessary in order to determine this? Another campaign with more candidates? And in the interim, who runs the country? By Constitutional Law, President Clinton can only serve 2 terms. If his presidency ends on Jan 18th, Al Gore's term as Vice President ends also. Does the Speaker of the House then take over the country?

Talk about unchartered and, for a History Major, fascinating times.....

OC
11-14-2000, 08:12 PM
Bravo, Steve. Excellent post all parties should agree on.

Now I need to detach myself from all of this and move on. I'm just glad there's a higher power in control...

OC

Doc
11-14-2000, 10:09 PM
magicman: My understanding of it is that yes, the Speaker would take over.

I think that's Dennis Hastert...and even if I can't have Bush, I'd LOVE having Hastert as temp-president. MUCH better than Albert "sore-loser" Gore.

(yes, i just took a jab at Gore...ATTACK ME LIBERALS!!! http://geekvillage.com/ubb/biggrin.gif)

MagicMan
11-14-2000, 11:09 PM
Doc, was that a swipe at the inventor of the Internet???? Have you seen that new commercial where the Donkey keeps saying he invented things, just like Al Gore?? I laugh every time I see that....

Ok, so the vote stands right now with Bush ahead by exactly 300 votes. 300....Incredible...Just think, 300 people from Florida. They could be visitors to your website. You pass 300 people a day in your car (if you drive or ever get away from your computer). 300 people who may have walked across our beach. May have even stepped on broken glass or dog poop. I just wish I would have taken my dad's advice and become an election Lawyer....man, would I rake in the bucks now!

LorenBaker
11-15-2000, 02:28 PM
First off, There has only been one recount, and that is not really over yet. That recount was issued by the state of Florida, not Al Gore. 4 counties filed for the option to hand recount the ballots because of irregularities in their machines.

Bush, who preached all of this "Small Government, States Rights" **** during the campaign, was the first to go to court.. FEDERAL COURT.. to get the Federales to go down to Florida and stop these counties from manually recounting, which they had the right to do, under Florida law, as long as they could before the deadline.

However, it is almost impossible for them to do so because the laws were written before the big population boom in FLA.

Cry baby Bush is scared of a recount because it may favor Al Gore. Gore is the only one of the two that actually used Florida law to defend the rights of small government in the state against Bush and his federal litigation (all this coming from Mr. Small Governement).

And you want to talk about cheating?? Is there an coincidence that the state this is all coming down in is governed by Geogie Porgie's brother? That their Secretary of State is Bush's Co-Chairperson? That George and Jeb's cousin was illegally funnelling exit poll results to the respectable (gag) Bush family? G and J's cousin also pulled the strings at Fox that night to influence voters when he saw Gore was actually winning the popular vote!

This whole thing is awesome! America is getting one heck of a civics lesson and seeing Bush's true colors finally come out.

FACT: There has only been one recount ordered and it is not finished yet.

FACT: Al Gore was elected by the majority of Americans in a popular vote to become our next president.

FACT: Once a vote is cast, it is final. Palm Beach County residents can not be allowed to revote.

FACT: Both candidates will take this issue to the courts... and if one steps down, more power to them.

FACT: If Al Gore had a brother that was a state governor and this bull was going on in that state... there would be a huge Republican uproar.

Both candidates are a bunch of slimey career politicians and both come from corrupt families.. but the Bush family is the Pinnacle of corrupt political families.

My two cents..

Loren

Doc
11-15-2000, 03:06 PM
ok...I have work to do, so I'll keep this shorter than i would like.

LorenBaker, YOU'RE SPOUTING UNSUPPORTABLE LIBERAL TRASH!

1ST: The problem with a manual recount is that those doing the county have the ability to decide whether or not they wish to judge the intent of the voters. I have no problem with simply counting the ballots, but MAKING JUDGEMENTS ABOUT WHAT A VOTER INTENDED TO DO IS LUDICROUS! Even more so when those doing the counting are in an overwhelmingly DEMOCRATIC county.

2ND: Bush filed the first lawsuit? DON'T TRY TO TELL ME THAT WHEN GORE SENT HIS LEGAL DEATH SQUAD DOWN TO FLORIDA THEY DIDN'T ARRANGE MEETINGS WITH THE "CONFUSED" VOTERS AND GIVE THEM GUIDANCE ON HOW TO PROCEED WITH A LAWSUIT. Unlike Gore, Bush actually files his OWN legal actions under HIS name. He doesn't hide behind his supporters.

3RD: JUST WHAT THE HECK DOES JEB BUSH BEING GOVERNOR HAVE TO DO WITH IT??? He DIDN'T tamper with votes, leave voting locations open in defiance of a court (democrats did!), or lure homeless to vote with packs of cigarettes (democrats did)! Furthermore, he recused himself from the process, I've yet to see a democartic activist or office holder do this!

Illegally funneling exit poll results to Bush?? ARE YOU INSANE??? HOW COULD THIS POSSIBLY MATTER IF IT WAS TRUE (which it isn't)???? LEAKING INFORMATION ABOUT VOTES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN CAST WON'T MAGICALLY CHANGE THEM! (just in case you're unaware of this)

4th: What's this nonsense about "influencing FOX"?

GIVE IT A REST ALREADY...YOU'RE NOT MAKING SENSE!!! All the stations called the state for Gore, BEFORE THE POLLS WERE CLOSED IN THE PANHANDLE PORTION OF THE STATE!!!

Know what that does, discourages Bush voters in those areas, WHICH HAPPEN TO BE HEAVILY REPUBLICAN. Now for you to say that the obviously liberal news media would deliberately set out to HELP a conservative (by calling the state for Gore, which, as I've explained makes no sense) IS THE CRAZIEST THING I'VE HEARD THIS MONTH!


5TH: WHO BLOODY CARES WHAT THE POPULAR VOTE WAS?? IT DOES NOT DECIDE WHO SHOULD BE PRESIDENT.

We use an ELECTORAL COLLEGE. Why? To protect the nation from a misguided majority.


FINAL: The hateful spewing of half-truths which you just did is the epitomy of what is wrong with this country. I used to be open-minded (though slightly conservative), no more! The events of the past week
have firmly cemented a hatred in my mind of all things related to liberals or Democrats. I would sooner remove my own limbs with a butter knife than EVER do anything to aid a Democratic candidate, much less VOTE for them. My money and my time are now firmly Republican. I can only thank Gore for my new found convictions.

(and yes, the butter knife thing was a bit extreme) http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

MagicMan
11-15-2000, 03:33 PM
LorenBaker, I am floored by your response. Especially one filled with so many in-accuracies.
Fact: Gore hired TeleQuest to "inform" voters of possible problems with their vote BEFORE the election was closed. In fact, the owner of TeleQuest has now come forward and showed DOCUMENTED proof that Gore ordered this BEFORE Tuesday!!!! This to me sounds like an ACE in the hole Gore thought he was holding.

FACT: The party in charge of each county's election designs the ballot. The DEMOCRATS are in control and designed this ballot. how in the world can you say G's brother or the SOS had anything to do with this? This is utterly ridiculous.

FACT: The vote was recounted. Not once, not twice, but three times!!!!!!! The vote that you are claiming has not been recounted is a hand count. Let me ask you a question. How can you tell what a voter's intent is if the vote is punched for Buchannon??

FACT: The reform party's Senator candidate in this SAME AREA received almost the identical number of votes Buchannon did. Where they supposed to be a vote for someone else??

And the thing that struck me as quite odd is that the Democrats are no longer asking to wait for the Absentee Ballots.....Could it be, as history in EVERY PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION since 1960 shows, this runs at least 58% Republican? There is an Army Base in CHAD that has 3,000 men stationed there. ABC News sent a crew there to poll each person on who they voted for. It shows that of the 2700 votes cast, 92% of them were for Bush. The only way the Democrats can hope to win this election is through the court systems.

Talk about crying over spilled milk.....

MagicMan
11-15-2000, 03:37 PM
Oh, and one other thing....... If a Presidential Candidate can not even carry his OWN HOME state in an election, doesn't that tell you that something is not quite right with him???? If Gore is declared the winner, he will be the FIRST President to have won the election without his state's blessing....

Questy
11-16-2000, 01:43 PM
Wisdom is knowing when to speak up, and knowing when to shut up.

Drastic
11-17-2000, 10:02 AM
I think the Democrats are thinking along these lines about the votes:

"Just keep counting 'em until WE win!!"

lol

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FREEandHOT.com (http://freeandhot.com) - The Select Guide to Free Stuff Online

OC
11-17-2000, 11:39 AM
Loren, sorry to disqualify your post with more details (which were posted by others before this post), but what you posted was just liberal trash.

I'm happy some one else (in fact a couple of people) stepped in to set Loren's post straight. When it was posted I just didn't have the time.

If you guys are keeping up-to-date, support our Secretary of State in her stand!

1. They are determining who the voter "intended" to vote for in this manual recount.

2. In the Palm Beach Post, I read one woman in charge of this has manipulated the ballots by slightly bending them so the chad for Gore popped out. This democrat woman accused of adding possibly a thousand votes for Gore (by making all the ballots in her "Iffy" pile for Gore). The PBPost is a democrat paper, so this made page 9 instead of page one. Folks, this is a sad country we live in and I became a citizen of.

Not to mention the international humiliation...
OC

--
"They should get out of the sun, I think they have sun stroke down there." http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif
-An elderly lady interviewed by CBS

OC
11-17-2000, 11:42 AM
Oh yeah and another thing...

FACT: Jeb Bush opted to step out of the State's elections/canvassing board and is having another official (determined by law) pick his replacement.

Gee, Loren, how's that for "Georgieporgie's" dishonest brother? http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

Can't you just admit you're wrong? The reason you didn't post early on abortion, etc. was because you knew you wouldn't be able to provide strong foundations of your beliefs.

OC

sterlingbeck
11-20-2000, 10:26 PM
Just like to say that I campaigned heavily in favor of Gore-Nader on my websites and easily influenced/talked to in some way/ spammed via news posts several thousand users...at least 4 or 5 dozen of them lived in New Mexico...and quite a lot more in Florida...now if I hadn't done that part...thats right...I'm responsible for it all ;-)

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Sterling Beck
23d Networks

hobbnet
11-21-2000, 01:51 PM
Grats sterling! http://geekvillage.com/ubb/wink.gif

Doc
11-21-2000, 11:40 PM
well if that's so, I can only say that I wish you had pushed a few more to Nader than ya did. http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

Its ok though, even if we took 20,000 votes from Gore, I'm sure his loyal election officials could alter enough ballots to make up the difference. http://geekvillage.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

OC
11-22-2000, 07:11 AM
ROFL!

Ain't that the truth... http://geekvillage.com/ubb/cool.gif
-OC

YeahBuddy
12-05-2000, 02:08 PM
Don't wanna get partisan here, but most of you people are the traditional conservatives and this thread seems to have turned into an area strictly for Democrat-bashing. Look at it this way: if you can stereotype Democrats as being liars and corrupt, then I can certainly stereotype you to be redneck Republicans who voted for Bush because their parents did.

Regardless of the fact that Bush won Florida (fairly or unfairly - take your pick), Al Gore won the popular vote nationwide by two hundred thousand votes. That is certain. If our Constitution had not created the Electoral College, a system designed to ensure that the population's elite could potentially change the outcome of the election if they believed that "commonfolk" made the wrong choice, then Al Gore would be working on HIS transition now and George W. Bush would be moping back in Austin.

Just my two cents http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

YeahBuddy
12-05-2000, 02:16 PM
"We use an ELECTORAL COLLEGE. Why? To protect the nation from a misguided majority." - Doc

This is a Republican quote worthy of it's own bumper sticker! Whether our MAJORITY is "MISGUIDED" or not, it is a majority and that is what should matter. You accuse LorenBaker of "spouting liberal trash", when you say this kind of outrageous thing? That's beyond me.

Sorry to get partisan, again http://geekvillage.com/ubb/smile.gif

Kathy
12-05-2000, 06:38 PM
The electoral college is essential to the nation. Why? Why hasn't it been changed?

Did you see the map of the country the night of the election (and many times after) with the states colored red for BUSH or blue for GORE? Notice where the Red states were located? All 39 red states (maybe give or take a few now...LOL) were throughout the nation...with the remaining (still counting) blue states in the NW and along the western coast.

I'm in Texas (yep, I enjoy the benefits of Gov. Bush in our capitol) and I don't really want those few states deciding who my president will be. Popular vote works in "a" state....but with the heavily populated areas of our nation on a little bit of soil...I don't want them with the weight of being able to determine who wins the presidency in Colorodo, Kansas, Louisiana and such.

The electoral college was created as a balance...making sure that even the little states had a voice in their presidency.

Perhaps we are in for an overhaul of the way the elections are handled (balloting contraptions and such...) but I really don't expect an overturn of the use of an electoral college.

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